Best Posts in Thread: Minimum Wages

Kid, please stop with such curt and dumb responses. Deinen is not always right; even he will tell you this. You can develop your knowledge-based arguments more and learn to be more objectively correct from just grabbing facts, but winning in subjective arguments takes experience and effort over time. You, on the other hand, don't seem to know how to do research, and you state your opinions without any reason to back them up. Yeah, somehow, as an 18 year-old, you don't know how to do either. It should be blatantly obvious, but immature and dumb remarks like this only make you look immature.

 

I know you're great at Math so I just want to point out that $2,400 per month is based off of $15.00 per hour.

You're assuming someone is working 8 hours every single day of the week. But most employers only employ up to 40 hours a week, or 5 days, because after that they have to pay 1.5x wages for OverTime. You need to do $10 per hour x 40 hour week x 4 weeks per month. Which is $1,600.


Aw heck I'll just plug in the numbers, I'm copying your post lol:
___________________________________

Income:

$10 per hour, 40 hours per week, 4 weeks per month

$16000 per month, $20800 per year

Expenses:

Apartment: cheapest one I could find was $455 for a studio apartment in St. Johns, and comes with cable TV (no utilities). It's also in the poorest, most dangerous suburb of Portland, and you don't want to be walking around after dark. The office advises you not to leave valuables in cars, and apparently there is a sign on the front office advising visitors not to park luxury cars nearby.

$1145 left

Income tax: $443, includes federal and state taxes. Source

$702 left

TriMet 1-month bus pass: $100

$602 left

Water bill: $70 for the sewer/drainage tax, and average person uses 500 cubic feet of water per month, at $4.22 per 100 cubic feet. Let's say you're thrifty and use 400 cubic feet of water. $87 total

$515 left

Natural gas bill: most Portland places use natural gas for heating in the winter. Average cost is $66, but we have a small house and it's okay to be a little cold sometimes. $40

$475 left

Electricity bill: Average for a 915-sq. foot apartment with one person living inside is $97. Again let's say we'll be thrifty and cut it to $80

$395 left

Internet: cheapest available is about $15 per month.

$380 left

Health care: the cheapest plan currently available to McDonald's employees is about $17 per week, which comes out to about $68 per month. But it's super basic and will barely cover anything. Better hope you don't need anything more than basic first aid.

$312 left

Thrifty or low-cost food plan: national average is $208, per the federal government (source). But Portland food is around 21% more expensive than the national average, so we'll say $252.

$60 left

I want to get myself out of this position (let's be real, nobody wants to work at McD's for the rest of their lives), so I want to get an education. I enroll in the local community college. Assuming I take two classes per quarter (remember I'm working a full-time job) that comes out to: $358

-$298 left

Miscellaneous groceries: soap, toilet paper, etc. let's say $50

-$348 left

Now all this is just the month-to-month expense, if everything goes absolutely perfectly. If I get run over by a car, or suffer some kind of injury that requires the hospital, I

1) don't get paid for the time I miss
2) have a good chance of exceeding the deductible of the health insurance, meaning I'll have to pay part of it.


I also need to pay for clothes: maybe a used suit (for job interviews), shoes, (I'm doing a ton of walking since it's a hike to the bus stop), and whatever.

I also need to pay for things like Advil or Tylenol when I get sick, and if I have allergies, allergy medicine (stuff's not cheap, yo). If I get sick, I miss work, and my income goes down, too

His math was based off of $15.00 per hour. So now you can tell that $10.00 per hour isn't possible for him, but at $15.00 his family can get by.

 

Which luxuries? The one phone we had for emergencies? The one old tv with an antenna that we bought when my dad had a job so we could still have information about things from the outside world? The old beat up car to get us to the doctor, work, or school? Maybe it was the ramen we survived off of for years? Or maybe it was the cot I got to sleep on because at least it was a place to sleep? Or do you mean the doctor bills my mom got because of her multiple sclerosis? Or could it be my therapy and depression meds? I'm going to need you to be a little more specific.

 

Yes using caps lock and typing lies over and over clearly makes you correct.

You seriously live in a fantasy world dude.

 

Funny story actually, you can be denied a lot of government assistance if you have cable and/or a phone. That was a predicament my family ran into when my dad lost his job. They said that if we can pay for a phone (mind you this was one Nokia brick) we make too much for their assistance. That was a pretty nasty winter too but I digress.
The bike thing is a really good idea though. Especially if you have a young one who needs a doctor or someone with a disability. Too bad buying a bike still costs money and if you live in a bad area, it can be stolen.
For the internet: At my local county library, you had to have a library card to even access the Internet. To get a library card, you had to have a valid address for them to ship it to and pay a sign up fee of $5. They did give the option to pay $10 for 10 minutes of computer use though. I guess that's just too bad for people who are homeless and/or can't afford to use the library Internet. Oh well, those lazy degenerates shouldn't have chosen to be so darn poor.

 

Lord this is a blessing. The fact that you said, "shouldn't be a touch screen," in and of itself shows that you are completely uninformed on this topic. Smartphones aren't incredibly expensive (find the cheapest plan you can, it's unbelievable). Hell, they usually come with a browser. A smartphone is probably one of the most essential things after a home, bike, electricity and water.

You really, really need to do more research before posting in the debate section. If you're 18 and you or your family are rich enough to fund a local library, you need to have gotten the adequate education to at least do that.

 

Okay Marlin, time to answer more of your responses right now:

Yeah, getting a loan that increases in value every time its compounded, while having no job is just lovely, isn't it? They cost tens of thousands of dollars to go to learn, then not having the money to pay, so instead, have to get a loan that puts them off balance and loses it when trying to "Budget".

Are they living off of someone else's pay check as well, or is it just ONE person?

No, most can't even live off of the basic or even minimum standards of living at all.

Actually, companies are in fact after the basic knowledge and experience to work, which some can not even do.

Why, because you don't consider these people to have the right to a fair pay?

Did you actually LOOK at Fair Work Australia? If the job is at minimum wage and the person is under 21 years of age, they would actually be paid less than that, because their brains are not fully developed and at 21 is (Excluding those with a trade qualified). And those who are 16 get 60% of the minimum wage of an adult (Which is $9 to $15/hour, for Australia $10.62 to $17.70/hour).

Dude, do you think poor people are that lazy? Don't you mean tired, from all the work they have been doing? Also some can't budget BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD EVERYTHING!

Okay, sorry to be angry there, but like everyone else has said, if you never had a real job to pay for things, you can't really be seen seriously then, because you've never experienced what its like. And Marlin, do some research please? It would help you to stop being abused on the internet, if you check and see that what you are writing is true.

 

as an economics student this thread makes me laugh

 

How many hours a week do you work?

 

Okay I usually don't say anything, that said I think you might consider this, I came from a military family, I married a military man, and we saw that all three of our children finished High School, so as for getting jobs/careers, think about this. Our oldest son works at Wal-mart in Electronics, customers look for him when shopping for those type of things. He likes working with people. Our second son took a job with the county, at 38 which isn't far off for him he'll have 20 years there, and he could change professions if he wants. Our third son, shepherdthree, worked for the military, while working civilian security. He took his time and let the Military pay for his college, now he works in his chosen path as IT tech.

So what has this to do with your question? I have never held a job that paid more than 25k, and I now have one that only pays 16k after 15 yrs., consider this carefully, how many people will stay with a company that pays less? I did because My spine was injured and I could no longer work the Customer Service Job I had. There are so many cases like mine that make the whole argument of us being lazy, null and void.

I'm sorry Blue I do like you, but I worked hard to raise my boys to have better than I have, and I have never been lazy.

 

You should be banned from this thread. Stop acting like a child. You lose an argument once you start calling someone a prick.

@Daniel Thompson

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2017, Original Post Date: May 24, 2017 ---

Seattle lost jobs by boosting minimum wage, report says
https://evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/NBER Working Paper.pdf
Stumbled across this on twitter, so it must be true.

"we conclude that the second wage increase to $13 reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by around 9 percent,"

"total payroll fell for such jobs, implying that the minimum wage ordinance lowered low-wage employees’ earnings by an average of $125 per month in 2016"

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 2, 2017 ---

Opinion | Sobering news for $15 minimum-wage boosters
(In case anyone still cares about this thread)

 

I just want you to see your own hypocrisy. Telling an Australian not to give his opinion on America because he's never lived here is exactly like you giving your opinion on topics you've never had to experience. If hes not allowed to give his two cents then you should refrain as well. You haven't lived outside of your very limited parents bubble, and by your own argument you shouldn't speak on most of these threads since you don't have the experience of living it.

 

So if we're not deporting them - why don't we make them legitimate through public works / military service / STEM education programs so they can further contribute to our economy/nation?

 

I'm going to have to when i try to get educated while the loan biz tries to succ me dry

 

I think it's a pretty good idea, as long as the government creates standards as to what can be taught at schools. I don't want taxpayer money going to schools teaching random crap; I went to a fundamentalist Christian middle school that taught young-earth creationism, and some other really questionable things, while refusing state accreditation and oversight. As long as public dollars aren't going to schools like that, I'm fine with the idea. Clearly public schools, especially in poorer inner-city districts, have been failing their students.

However, it gets a little murky with separation of church and state. Personally, I have no problem if people want to use school credits for private religious schools (provided the schools actually teach, and don't spout religious BS 100% of the time). However, it might be unconstitutional.

 

so much entitlement

 

But that isn't life! This isn't some theoretical fancy world you're living in but the real world where one day you can be hit out of the blue by a car! We are talking about emergency situations because those occur in life, and $10 an hour isn't a liveable wage.

Well it is when they begin stealing from stores for food causing you to pay higher prices. (You should look up how much shoplifting increases the prices we pay)

No you are a selfish person because despite evidence showing this improves society, thus your own life, you can only see what is immediately in front of you and want to keep it.

 

Detailed. I would like to add that people can have a nice phone and low-income if a life changing event occurred. Fiscal security is fairly low to be honest.

 

Why We Shouldn't Raise the Minimum Wage | HuffPost
Don't worry guys here is the link.

 

Read the part about the family though. If one little thing goes wrong you're completely screwed.

Let's say the kids stay home sick 6 days a year (3 days per kid) and I stay home to watch them. That's $480 per year, or $40 per month.

Let's say we do a movie night once every two months: nearby mall with movie theater. $37.50 for the family, but it's once every two months, so $18.25 per month.

Let's say we go out to eat once a month: Bellagio's, the closest pizza place (it's an Oregon local business, kind of like Domino's): $30 for two large pizzas.

I forgot to add tissues/toilet paper/menstrual pads/toothpaste and stuff like that for the wife and kids--let's say $25 per month.

The meal plan essentially assumes you're eating at home, with the most basic foods (boiled chickn without spices, boiled vegetables, bread, milk, etc.) let's say I want my food to actually taste decent, $15 for some spices and maybe some cheap breakfast cereal.

This adds up to $128.25, which means I have $18.75 leftover per month, or $225 per year.

I need to buy clothes and shoes for four people (once a year?), including two kids who outgrow their stuff quickly (let's say I buy their clothes a few sizes too big so they can wear them longer). $25 will buy a couple outfits at Goodwill--multiply that by 2 and I get $50. But I need to buy several pairs of shoes (kids are walking a mile to and from the bus stop every day, and Goodwill shoes are used). Let's say shoes are $15 each and I buy 2 pairs per kid. That's $110 for the two kids for clothes and shoes.

My wife and I are doing a ton of walking too, and need new shoes (let's say we don't need new clothes). Three or four pairs of used shoes per year (they're super worn out, and I'm doing a lot of walking--remember I have to walk my kids to school (or the bus stop) and pick them up from childcare) at $15 per shoe is around $45 to $60. Multiply that by 2 for my wife and you get $90 to $120.

Congrats, I have between $5 and $35 left on the year, and this is assuming no hospital visits, ever. I also have no car, and it's really difficult to raise a kid with no car.

Elementary school: 16 min. away by bus
Middle school: 36 minutes away
High school: 22 minutes away
Child care: nearest is 25 minutes away
Grocery store: 18 minutes away (and since I have no car it's kind of hard to carry everything too)

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2017, Original Post Date: May 4, 2017 ---

Oh I forgot by the time my kids go to high school I'll have to buy their textbooks, at $50 each or so. 4 classes with textbooks (we'll assume 3 don't need textbooks) and you get $400. How the hell am I supposed to afford that???