Best Posts in Thread: Minimum Wages

Please stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself because you obviously are very ignorant on this subject.

From what I could decipher from that headache of a post, you are asking how increasing minimum wage will cause unemployment, I think.

Basically higher wages = more payment for workers = less employees for same amount of money = less job opportunities = higher unemployment

I also love these types of threads because you have the people who think they know what they are talking about and the people who actually do.

Yes it does. If these people aren't getting hired than they aren't working. Dude it's kinda self explanatory.

Oh boy dude, oh boy. Yes, it can be made into a career. If you think that the people working at McDonald's are there because they love it then I'm the pope. These people work at McDonald's because that is the best job they can get at the time, sorry if they don't have the 6 figure jobs that people are extremely lucky to get due to the many variables that must be right to be able to have those jobs. Sure, those who are underprivileged can work hard and beat the system, but I'm sure that those are the small minority (don't quote me on that).

Cause sure, that's super easy to do. I'm sure people working jobs like at McDonald's haven't already thought of that.

Tell that to the mexican immigrant working on a farm for long-ass hours getting paid sometimes below minimum wage.

Oh and just for laughs...

 

@Marshy_88 the jobs are probably all taken by Blue Marlins step brother.

Seriously though I understand your point. I just wanted to try showing Blue that laziness is not the only factor for not having a decent job.

 

So, since you've never ever held a real job, it seems you're opinions are unqualified for this thread.

 

How about you correct it in detail so we know what you are talking about.

 

This^

Blue thinks it's all just accepting cash and sractching your a**.

I spent 6 months in fast food and it was the toughest, and worst paying, job I've ever had. I ran the store with one other person from 4:00pm to 7:00pm then alone from 7:00 til close. We would be so busy til 10:00 when doors closed, everything would be a mess. Then my supervisor would expect me to leave the store spotless, with food prepped for morning shift, within the next hour so I can have the store shut down at 11:00. I would clock out at 10:59 pm and continue working til 2:00 am, at which time my entire checklist would finally be complete.

I know it's illegal to work off the clock, but if I got Overtime I would be fired and if the store wasn't perfect then my hours would be reduced and I wouldn't be able to pay rent.

I wish I had enough time and care to actually type out everything I went through daily at that job. It was the miserable and hardest job I've had, but it also taught me a lot, especially about people working those jobs that truly give a sh*t.

 

Honestly, it's hard to believe that there's someone older than me that can't comprehend the concept of first- and third-world societies (@Blue_marlin98). Sure, if we lived in a third-world society, $10 and hour would be great. However, we don't. People who are poor are uninformed of news, can't contact people on the phone in case of emergencies, can't get insurance, all of which screws up their chances of getting a decent job. Let's not forget to mention that people who need to make minimum wage often don't have an adequate education.

As Deinen said, people who work to make barely enough money to survive aren't thinking about their futures. That is a basic concept. Accept it. Don't say, "oh but they should be thinking about their future." They can't. Not when they are worried about their lives, their loved ones' lives, the government, etc.

Nobody wants to go out of their way to explain these basic concepts to you if you don't bother to learn on your own. The purpose of a debate isn't to be right and contradict, it's to learn and develop ideas. Being contrarian is just plain immature, cut it out.

 

What if you have an unexpected pregnancy? Although I'm pro choice I wouldn't want to use abortion as an option regardless of my financial situation. My GF was making $7.25 an hour when she got an unexpected pregnancy. Her child has severe asthma, there have been so many nights where my gf rocked her crying and coughing child to sleep because she couldn't afford more treatment refills until her next paycheck, as a single parent. Then once the paycheck came she would have to put bills on the back burner because her child is more important. When i met her she was hundreds overdue on plenty of bills, and luckily we've got them all situated but we still have plenty of hospital bills we need to pay off.

My post isn't specifically about minimum wage. It's about the mindset Blue has about "People get offended that life sucks. Get over it." People are not "offended" they are literally struggling to cope and make ends meet. My GF has worked harder than myself and most people on this thread combined, especially harder than Blue will ever have to. She's cried for her sick child too many times. And all he can say is "don't be offended, get over it". It's an ignorant statement to make which shows he has no idea of the realities that most Americans face. He says he supports Americans? Well news flash Blue, poor and sick people are Americans too, not just rich white people. He only supports his ideology and nothing else, it's a sham of patriotism he pretends to display.

Plus he says he doesn't like hand outs?? His whole life has and will be a hand out. He didn't have to work at age 16 to support his single mother. He didn't have to save up for months to buy a used car and move to college. He won't have to decide which meal he will skip because I'm sure if he doesn't have money then mommy or daddy will give it to him. And nothing is wrong with being supported by your parents, congratulations that they can help you. But it's still literally a hand out, the thing you supposedly despise so much. Your road has been paved for you and you mock those that have to try paving their own way. It's sad.

 

Yes people are definitely "offended" that their wages don't cover the cost of their living expenses and the treatment their daughter needs for asthma.

People are "offended" that after coming back from serving our country in war they're met with harsh economic conditions and have to beg outside of buildings until some spoiled kid tells then to leave.

People are "offended" when one minor incident costs them everything they have, despite all the hard work they've put in.

People are "offended" that they were sexually assaulted.

People are "offended" that they got cancer or any other incurable disease which costs thousands in treatment.

They should just all accept that life sucks and even though we can create a system in which they can get help, we won't do it because that's life, deal with it.

 

I want you to work Friday evening at my store. Honestly. I want you to serve 120 cars in 3 hours, in under 3 minutes per car from the second they hit the mic to after they've left. I want you to upsell them so we make more than $2k during that rush. Count out correct change for every car otherwise you're paying the difference at the end of your shift.

I want you to make shakes, drinks, drop fries, bag orders, all while taking orders, counting change, and running the front counter. And you're going to run the fryer aswell, because we're understaffed and can only schedule 2 people for Friday evening. So drop and make tacos, nuggets and chicken and egg rolls and wedges and churros and poppers and all these things you have to memorize. You'll have to run the microwave for the cheeses and french toasts and fajitas, and not get in the way of your cook while doing so.

And I hope you're really good at multitasking, friend. You are going to run out of things during the rush and have to stock them, or make them. Shake mix? Spend a minute refilling the machine, a minute you could be spending doing everything else. Iced coffee? 2 minutes. Ice? 30 seconds per bin, 6 bins fills the tray and does not last long. Sauces, bags, cups, lids, you name it, you have to waste 30 seconds per item that you could be using to run your drivethru.

Your cook won't be able to help you at all because they'll be busy "flipping burgers", along with building them and making salads and dropping what they need for the grill in the fryer because Lord knows they can't rely on you to do it. They have their own slew of problems that they need to deal with, they can't waste any time helping you.

I run drivethru like this 5 nights a week, 8 hours a night, by myself with a cook. Just as I described. I make $11/hr. Do I complain? No. We're more than just burger flippers, Blue.

Well said.

 

It's actually really easy.

You don't need to pay for internet, because you can use the library instead. Phone bill? Nah, you don't need to receive calls, it's fine. A lot of poor people buy light-rail or bus passes, but that's a waste of money because they're too lazy to walk. You don't need a house or apartment, because let's face it--a roof over your head is a complete luxury--this also means no utilities, so you save even more money.

Food is also free, you can find perfectly good food in the dumpster after the grocery store closes, if you're not too lazy to look through trash.

You just gotta pay tax--you know, to support the government that's helping you, protecting you, and serving you.

So by my calculations, you're saving around, I dunno, $1300 or so a month. That's a lot of money!!

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2017, Original Post Date: May 5, 2017 ---

To clarify, since I might have been unclear--I'm not a huge proponent of increasing the minimum wage per se, though it needs to be adjusted for inflation every year.

If we want social mobility, education must be prioritized. The school system, especially in inner-city schools, is failing children. Learning environments are noisy, crowded, dirty, and filled with teachers who have checked out and have burnt themselves out. Teachers teach to standardized tests, instead of actually teaching material--this encourages rote memorization instead of developing critical thinking skills, which are essential in most careers.

Gifted kids, the future of the country, are ignored because teachers are instructed to focus on the "bubble kids," kids who are currently failing but deemed to be "salvageable"; this is done to increase standardized test scores (the worst students are deemed a lost cause, and the gifted students would pass tests anyway so they apparently don't need to learn). Compounding this problem is that "tracks" in schools have fallen out of favor, instead; complete integration (at least in elements and middle schools) is the norm. This creates situations where advanced readers, for example, are sitting there bored out of their minds and creating trouble, while slower readers don't understand anything at all.

The government, and many voters, have convinced themselves that throwing money at the problem will make it go away. But per capita, the amount America spends on students is increasing each year--and yet the education system doesn't get any better. Sure, maybe standardized test score may improve, but that's mostly because teachers are just teaching kids how to take tests, instead of teaching the material (can you blame them? In many districts their pay is based on how well their students perform on standardized tests).

In fact, my uncle, who's been a high school math teacher in LA Unified Public Schools (LA school district), as well as various other places across the West Coast, has said that the entire curriculum is scripted--from lesson plans, to how to answer specific questions, everything, nearly word-for-word. If this is actually a trend, it needs to stop. Now. I understand that giving teachers freedom results in more varied results, and I'm not advocating for the removal of all standardized testing. However, teachers and parents are the people who know the students best, not some guy working in a school district office who's never actually taught before--besides, different approaches work for different groups of students.

Lastly, college needs to be more affordable. With technology playing an increasingly important role in the world, specialization is becoming necessary for successful careers. However, higher education is ridiculously expensive, and has become way more expensice in the past 30 years, which puts a huge toll on the middle class (poorer students are likely to get financial aid, richer students' parents will likely pay their tuition, leaving middle-class students with...debt). Overall this hurts the economy as well, and it's probably beneficial for the government to increase public funding of universities to make college more affordable.

Oh, I almost forgot--athletics shouldn't be the main focus of a university. I'm as much of a sports fan as anyone here--heck, just look at my profile picture) but the truth is, many schools waste a ton of money on athletics. New football stadiums, arenas, flashy high-paid coaches who don't even do their job well (*ahem, I'm looking at you, Mike Leach), etc. I don't necessarily know how to fix this, as NCAA athletics has become ingrained in our culture (plus as a sports addict id die of boredom without sports) but let's be real, college sports culture has gotten out of hand.

Sorry about any typos I wrote this on my phone

 

To add onto this: we don't mind if you disagree with us. We (edit: me, Deinen, Grandblue, Daniel Thompson, Deljikho, etc.) only mind when you disagree with us, sprout your preconceived notions with no basis in reality, and then plug your ears when we try to reason with you.

Like many voters, you're so blinded by your hatred of the opposing party that you refuse to acknowlege that *gasp* maybe a liberal might actually be right. And to be fair, I've had the opposite scenario happen, where I was once talking politics, and the other guy said: "You're a Republican, so I can't acknowlege you're right. But I will say that you're not wrong."

That was the moment I realized that something is really, really, wrong with political culture nowadays. And you (and people who have this same attitude) need to realize this and open your ears for once.

 

I'm really confused but 700,000 people is a lot of people and I think they matter so I like Alaska

And federal minimum wage should not be increased. Local cities should increase minimum wages corresponding to current living costs, but not a ridiculous amount. Give people education, not a few more dollars

 

Ah, so above all the illegal immigration on the books, that aren't enforce and don't work - He wants an additional law that isn't enforced/doesn't work?

Enforcing the laws on the books kinda solves that remittance thing, no?

 

Let your true colors fly, friend. Screw poor people/teenagers/people who just need a job, right?

And I've got a spot free Sunday night if you feel like flipping burgers with me

I'd like to see Blue rent a house, pay bills, work a job, generally live on his own and be an adult. We're the same age and I can manage it no problem. But he wouldn't dare become a peasant and flip burgers to survive, oh no.

I'd like to see how well off he'd be if he didn't have his family to rely on.

 

I mean, no offense. But if you've never held a real job in order to pay real rent and feed your real self and pay for real utilities then you actually have no idea what real life is like, thus you have no idea if the minimum wage is effective or not and you chose to spout your opinions.

Shouldn't Walmart pay their employees enough so they do not have to go on welfare? Why are we subsidizing labor costs for massive corporations?

Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance

 

Annual tuition for Yale 1970: $2,550
Annual tuition for Yale 2014: $45,800

Minumum wage 1970: $1.60
Minimum wage 2014: $7.25

Minimum daily hours at minimum wage to pay for tuition 1970: 4.8
Minimum daily hours at minimum wage to pay for tuition 2014: 17.3
(This would be assuming you did not have any scholarships, other related bills, this is purely tuition and nothing more.

How much has tuition gone up since 1970? x18
How much has minumum wage gone up since 1970? x4.5
(edited to correct mistake
Milk prices have gone up about x6
Bread prices have gone up about x15
just two examples

Not to mention, college does not guarantee getting a job like it kind of used to be. It can turn a crappy job into a slightly less crappy job, but we are living in a world where if we get a 10 cents an hour raise we have to put on our happy smiley faces and go oh my GOD that is SO GREAT thank you SO MUCH OH HEAVENLY BOSS!!!!

We have so many college grads who WANT jobs and DO try to find things for themselves, but now people are better off skipping it and learning a trade, which can also sometimes circle back to "You don't have a degree? You're an electrician? What, college too smart for you? hahahahhahahaha"

There is no goddamned way to win now unless you have good connections, and/or being born into a higher class, or simply getting lucky.
But the majority of us are straight up f'd. 8 out of 10 people are in debt. The average american household owes $90K in debt.

I'm not ever going to necessarily say minimum wage should be the standard living wage. I do think that teenagers looking for their first jobs should not need a high wage or that someone just starting out in a new job/carreer needs a super high wage.

I want the minimum wage to at least be able to scrape people by though. I want kids to be able to help their parents get out of their own debt right before getting shit on with their own debt that they'll get once they want to go to college or move. I want people who lose a good job for whatever reason be able to find a minimum wage job until they can find something better. I want people to be able to have accidents and not be royally screwed for the next decade. I want people to not want to commit suicide when they can't pay what they owe. I want people to not have to think, If I get run over by this train, I won't have to beg for money and be yelled at by some asshat for no reason at all.

People deserve to be happy. Just because someone had an easy life does not mean the people who had it hard deserve it. The people who have it hard are not having it hard because they're going to a fancy restaurant every other day or buying T-bone steaks as a weekly treat or grabbing that expensive bottle of wine.

People are having problems because so many of them are stuck in a world where there are two solutions: "Go to college, get a high paying job, but you'll likely have difficulties finding a job at all. Have this apron, you are a waiter now until you can find something If you find something "
Or "Here's an apron. Wow, college too smart for you? LOL thats why you work as a waiter!"

Sure, if you wait, something *might* happen for you or you *might* be able to get somewhere. But getting somewhere can cost money. And that's money too many people don't have.

 

I don't really care if you "want" millions of dollars. I care what you have worked for and earned in the marketplace of labor. If you have no skills, you will get unskilled labor. Unskilled labor won't make very much money, because in the ideal society you have an absolutely free market. While i'm not enough of an ideologue to claim we should go to a completely libertarian utopia, I think keeping it as "free" as possible is a good thing. A minimum wage is good, a government required base income isn't.

Thats why I support welfare programs designed to help people who weren't born into privilege. The solution isn't giving people 30k a year for unskilled labor.

If you could earn 30k a year flipping burgers, what would the motivation be to get other skilled jobs (that contribute to society more) that pay the same? Why would you join the army? Or become a teacher? It wouldn't make sense. The result of a 15$ minimum wage would be either inflation, because people would have more money so things would get more expensive and we would be in the same bucket we are now, or people would just stop taking jobs where you have to have skills that earn 30k~

(Its really late where I am right now and i'm really sleep deprived so if what i'm saying is complete gibberish I apologize in advance.)

 

Why are we blaming people for accepting less pay and not the companies that are taking advantage of them?

 

You aren't forced to, but it's a writeup if you're short. 3 writeups and you can be fired with (JIB) justification, vs. Washington's "you can be fired for any reason" law.

It's no issue for me, I'm never short.

 

Ok, let's put it this way

I, an adult who has been working and paying real adult bills and raising children for 18 years now, am telling you, an 18 year old who hasn't held a real job or paid any bills - $10 is not a liveable wage because no matter what you budget, one emergency situation and you lose everything and are homeless at $10 an hour. At $10 an hour you can't afford college to better yourself to make more money.

If you are slaving your life away for a life that you cannot do a single thing in, why wouldn't you just kill yourself because what in the hell is the point?

Oh has health insurance been added to any of this math because with a measly $100 a month in savings you are one broken bone away from ruin.

That is the kind of America you want? Then you are simply a cruel human being.

Edit: Health care is apparently factored in if and only if you work at McDonalds, so avoid any other $10 an hour jobs such as retail stores, gas stations because those health plans are astronomical. I've seen the plans my wife's work offers at a gas station they are horrendous and blows that budget out of the water.

So yeah, don't ever get hurt or you might as well kill yourself too cause you'll never financially recover.