To gun, or not to gun?

If you knew anything Nuckle you would automatically know I was referring to a blowgun, but because you dont. You make comments like what you said a few above.

If anything he was the one who insulted me when he decided to judge me and call me a psychopath back a couple comments ago

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2016 ---

There is the key word. "reported" think about that. You did not win this argument because you refuse to properly ackowledge opposing arguments. You know "nothing" about guns. You know "nothing" about wildlife and how it works. You know "nothing" about life outside of a major city where you have to share land with the local wildlife such as Bears/Cougars/Wolves/Caribou/Moose and anything. And you clearly know "nothing" about how aggressive they become during mating season and around their young.

You also know "nothing" about people who "legally own" guns. Instead you want to simply take away a law abiding citizen's rights to defend them selves.

 

Uhhh. Okay then.

The government is people! IT'S PEOPLE!!! </soylentgreen>

The EU member states are all signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is actually far more comprehensive than the US Bill of Rights, so... we should be so lucky?

Here in America there's still talk about being the freest nation on Earth, but that hasn't been true for quite some time now, as many advanced countries enjoy freedoms we do not. It's usually the same people who talk about said freedom who are trying to get laws passed about baggy pants and loud music, too.

To be fair, I wasn't using the nutjobs as an argument in favor of gun control (though there's certainly a case to be made there), but rather as an argument against the irrational fear of the totalitarian state.

For the record, I don't believe in a 100% gun ban, I'm just occasionally talking from that position because this is a debate, and because, while I don't agree with it, their side certainly has some strong arguments in favor. Somewhere in that incoherent nonsense weewoo was spouting recently he nearly made a valid point about Canada having high gun ownership, but they practice sane gun control with things like limiting semi-automatic rifles to 5 rounds per mag and banning automatics outright.

Ehhh... another argument for another thread, maybe, but there's definitely a conflict here between what's good for the individual versus what's good for everyone who isn't the individual. Are we a society, or just a bunch of individuals fighting each other for survival? Not unlike the gun issue, there.

My kid and her friends regularly come in the house from playing outside because some moron is firing weapons well within the legally-defined limits from my house, and if we can't trust them to move a mere 300 feet into the forest, we definitely can't trust them to keep them pointed down range and away from the neighborhood. This happened not far from me:
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...blocks-bullet-saves-man-life-article-1.337498

Also, there's New Orleans just down the way, and that's a pretty violent place. I was once stalked there by a road-raging driver who flashed his piece.

So yes, this is a thing we actually worry about some days, but no, not today.

The laws on the books don't seem to be doing us much good, though, do they? After several of these mass-shooting incidents, examination has turned up that the shooter purchased their guns legally despite big red flags that would have disqualified them if we had sensible laws.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2016 ---

Yes, you won that internet because you're a bad communicator, and the last time I used "small PVC pipe" it had a 1.25" diameter, and physics says good luck with trying to blow anything out of that with your lungs over any significant distance.

Yes, that was uncalled for, it's not like you had just wished me and my family to be brutalized or anything. Psycho.

Just when I thought your claims couldn't get any more hilariously nonsensical... this.

Now might be a good time for you to scroll back some pages in this thread and see if maybe I was ever an active duty naval weapons specialist with collateral duties in a physical security role or anything.

 

Alright. Everyone shut up.

The situation is that we seem to have a bunch of Australians, British, etc etc arguing for gun control, and at the same time, a bunch of yanks and what not arguing against it.

Firstly, this thread is pointless considering that it's just a massive game of I-am-right-and-you-are-wrong.

The truth is that America has gone past the point of help when it comes to gun control. There's no going back now that almost everyone seems to own one. BUT at the end of the day, your 'second amendment' is a piece of paper, whereas victims of gun violence -of which there are tens of thousands- are human beings who have lives, jobs and families.

Secondly, the only reason this debate has gone on for this long is the fact that anyone raised in Australia, Britain, etc. would be used to living in a safe environment, practically free of gun violence and, let's face it, are in the ideal situation. Whereas anyone raised in America etc would be used to guns being for 'safety' and 'protection' against a problem that your country has created for itself.
So basically all this is is a war of bias vs bias.

Countries DO need gun control. That's a given. But, in the context of America, there is no way to enforce it without wrecking the economy/the 'rights' of the people.

tl;dr: America has gone past the point of help. Any new/developing countries shouldn't make guns freely available.

STOP THE PROBLEM BEFORE IT STARTS

 

I SUDDENLY AGREE WITH NUCKLE!!!

The entire basis of his argument boils down to. "Guns kill people, pens and pencils miss spell words, vehicles drive drunk, and forks/knives/spoons make people fat."

And I totally agree!!! My .22 rifle just went and loaded it self, grew legs. And continued to shoot up a mall. All the while my spoons all grew legs. And force fed a person until they gained weight.

Oh what a world we live in. Bravo Nuckle!!! By your logic you have saved us all from the evil inanimate objects!!! You have completely eliminated human responsibility from everything! Phew, now that I know this. I can go and tell my neighbor and so forth. Eventually we will all have one big happy circular hand holding event around a campfire and cower in fear while what used to be our guns, run around and shoot us all!

 

Watching weewoo post now is a lot like watching a high school soccer player repeatedly hammering the ball into his own goal, then celebrating like he'd just won the WWE championship belt. On one hand, it's absolutely hilarious, but it also makes you feel bad for his teammates.

I'm watching this from the side of the other team, and while his antics help me, and I have a front-row seat to the hilarity, I really only came here because I like to play soccer.

 

Well you seem incapable of logic your self, Hence why I still feel that you are a fool.

Stupidity has a certain charm, ignorance does not. All your argument has boiled down to is "guns are bad mkay."

Your further need to resort to petty attempts at insults further proves that. Face it, you lost the debate. Your logic is flawed and naive.

 

I will agree that the logic you just invented and somehow attributed to me despite the fact I've never said anything like it was both flawed and naive... though not so flawed and naive as your idea that you could knock over that obvious straw man and think that wins you anything but derision.

I'm curious, though, because it seems to be a central part of what little rational argument you've managed to cobble together - exactly how many times have your firearms saved you from a charging moose?

 

You want an exact number?

My guns have saved me from a charging polar bear, a charging moose while I was in The Yukon, a few caribou during various mating seasons and on a few occasions a black bear. Again during mating season.

And if you think that you can simply "run away" from a bear or a moose. Or a Caribou in that matter, then I invite you to try. Just let me know when you do so that I may copy and paste your obituary to my "i told you so" list.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2016 ---

And since you are obviously ignorant to gun laws. I'll have you know that when you shoot an animal out of season in self defence, you are supposed to call the ministry straight away. Which I have done each time, you do not get to keep the meat and you do not get into trouble if you can prove that they charged. And in snow, it is incredibly easy to prove.

Then again, seeing as how despite your claims of being "in the navy" how you remain to be foolishly ignorant to guns and weaponry in general. I highly doubt that claim. While in my case, I do work armed security on a daily basis and can easily account for all of the training and knowledge of the canadian restricted and unrestricted firearm licences. And the requirements they hold.

 

FFS DID NO ONE LISTEN? Ready my previous post. This thread is pointless. It's just a war of bias offending people.

 

Personally, I stand by guns. As a hunter and sport shooter, I am a strong believer that safety and responsibility come hand in hand. If you know how to responsibly use a gun, you'll avoid almost all problems that arise. The issue comes when we allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, whether its handing a gun down through the family, an unrecorded cash deal, or theft. A gun in the hands of an irresponsible individual is a dangerous gun at the least, and a fatal gun at the most. To say flat out that gun restriction will solve gun issues is an oversimplification of a very complex problem. Instead, I suggest investigating the underlying causes of issues such as this one and working to eliminate them effectively.

 

I will be speaking from personal experience. No facts or persuasion.
-Growing up, guns in many respects have taught me how to be responsible. Because you can never be too careful with them, I always check to make sure the gun can function properly, that I'm aiming in the right direction, and handling them properly. News reports of shootings is a reminder for me to be careful and sensible.
-I find it disappointing when citizens turn in guns via the Gun Buyback Program when they don't even know what gun they are turning in(weapons from WWII specifically). They are a part of history and it is a shame that the police are required to destroy something so valuable.
-As a women I generally have a smaller build than most men. I am not as tall, strong, or as heavy. Unless Darwin's theories have other plans, women will probably continue to be shorter for quite some time. Guns give me equality as I can efficiently protect myself from those who may want to take advantage of me in some physical way.
-My father is a reenactor for the Civil War and the War of 1812. Many of the guns that we own are for educational purposes, not threats.

 

Perhaps you know what you are doing and doing it properly, and I commendyou for that, but with so many guns around not everyone is going to be as careful with guns as you yourself might be

 

See, here is my thing. I am in no way against restrictions on who can get guns. By all means some control is needed. But out right banning them like people insinuate will accomplish absolutely nothing accept disarming law abiding citizens and eliminating a country's militia strength. Which is a huge no-no.

 

You know what I like about you... You have a brain.

 

To be fair in the UK farmers and stuff are still allowed shotguns with a licence

I feel brains are useful things to have thankyou

 

Can we all just forget the enraged bears/home invasions/totalitarian states/whatever and come back down to earth for a second, rather than spouting slippery slope fallacies?
Now, I live in the UK, am half Swedish and am 7/16 American. In the UK, there are laws against possessing firearms. Nobody I know owns a gun, except for this Ukrainian kid in my school year, and his guns aren't even in the UK. Anyway, the current gun control laws have been effective there in reducing gun violence. Now to Sweden. My extended family there has a long history of hunting in the woods around their various houses. They all have rifles, and taught my dad how to shoot so he could do well in the Swedish army. He was a lieutenant at one point. My family have never fallen victim to a home invasion. Ever. That I know of.
There is nothing in the constitution of the UK saying that everyone has the right to own a gun. Less gun culture means fewer gun deaths, and an attitude that gun control is a good idea. But over in America, where the Second Amendment states that everyone has the right to own a gun, it's a 'breach of citizens' rights' or whatever to introduce gun control laws. The very much ossified Bill of Rights, which was written in a time when the world thought that guns were a good thing, prevents it. Well, why not drop this Bill and follow the UDHR instead, where everyone who is a member of a nation that follows it is relatively free from harm. Which, by the way, was written by an American. Truth be told, it would be a much better option than continuing to follow a declaration which grants psychopaths the right to wield a deadly weapon. I rest my case.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 5, 2016 ---

I think that was my longest post ever.

 

You have a lot of sense bud. But you will soon be contradicted because us people who value human life are obviously idiots. Like... I mean we wouldn't want little kids surviving through school would we now? Or we wouldn't want those people who went to the cinema with their mates to watch 'The dark knight rises' to come out alive? Or of course we wouldn't want people managing to go buy their groceries without getting peppered with bullets? Of course not! Pshhh. Human life = down the drain

 

Its a different world in the UK. Their gun control laws work, no doubt. However, if you were to try and implement the same laws into America, you would not have the same results. Bottom line, it won't work here because of our long standing culture and tradition.

 

Yeah, we should all believe the perfectly ordinary and reasonable claim that you're regularly attacked by cud-chewing animals (must be your lovable personality), but the notion that a person might do a tour in the military is too outlandish to be believed.

Please share some more of your minimum-wage mall cop expertise so we can all benefit from your "expertise." I'm already profoundly grateful for the information you just shared above on the disposition of animal meat in response to a question that literally nobody asked. You've thoroughly convinced me of the dangers of polar bears and caribou, and I have no doubt they're overrunning the bayous of the Gulf South and will be fulfilling your sadistic fantasy to murder me and rape my wife in a matter of days unless I can get them first.

Psycho.

 

You know he's from canada, not the gulf south. (yes, moose are very overpopulated in the gulf and pose a huge threat)
Not surprising given that you haven't managed to notice that polar bears do kill people, unlike what they show on the discovery channel. As a large game hunter I can assure you, whether you're hunting them or not, moose and caribou will indeed charge, and being in front of them when they reach you is not advisable.