Should Fireworks be Legal?

I don't think they should be illegal, I just think people should consider that people do like to sleep at night and shooting fireworks off at 3am 3 months after the 4th doesn't help that

 

I think it depends where you set them off. Best to be in a clear environment like an open field. I live on an island, so we just set our fireworks off on the out on the river.

 

The reason that I brought up the 'level' of inconvenience is that it affects whether or not there is a benefit or a loss from allowing fireworks to be launched. More people enjoy fireworks than not, so assuming that everybody that doesn't partake in watching/using fireworks is only slightly inconvenienced, the pros for allowing fireworks outweigh the cons (since most people enjoy fireworks and since a lot of the people that enjoy them get more enjoyment than how much inconvenience the other people get).

I believe so.

Yes, well, partially. I did say that if we were to find out about an alien species that is more intelligent than our species, they should be prioritized over us, but yes, I think that humans should be prioritized over the other species that we know about. If we were comparing a slight inconvenience to humans and a slight inconvenience to other animals, then sure, I would say that we should inconvenience the animals instead; however, that's not the case here. I think that scaring wild animals to death is significantly worse than causing humans a slight inconvenience.

Okay, maybe you're right here/maybe fireworks shouldn't be allowed. The reason that I had my stance on this part was that I don't think that the masses should be forced to adapt to the needs of a few individuals. For example, I don't think that a bakery should be forced to carry foods that can be eaten with people with food allergies, I don't think that a restaurant should be forced to play quiet music for noise-sensitive people, etc. (I do think that it's very good if businesses like this try to accommodate people by doing these things, but they shouldn't be forced to). I guess there is a very significant difference here though, considering that someone can just choose to not go to these places, whereas you can't reasonably choose to not go to where fireworks are. A more comparable analogy might be saying that a school shouldn't be forced to have left-handed desks to accommodate left handed students, which I think is wrong, as it's harming the students and they can't get out of it, since they have to go to school.

I was also thinking along the lines of, "It wouldn't be justified to take away the happiness of almost everybody for the happiness of a few," but I guess that would also be an incorrect way of thinking of it, as even a firework lover's happiness would only go down a bit without fireworks, whereas an ill adult or a frightened animal could be severely affected.

 

Sure, that's what we're trying to get to the heart of. Whether the net good outweighs the net bad. However, the argument in question (the one you're addressing) probably needs to be made a little clearly on my end.

We cannot accurately make this decision as a collective. Let alone as individuals. It's incredibly difficult to quantify, remain objective and without bias, and then get everyone to agree on the assessment you've made. Even though it might be beneficial for you to host a house party for 50 people even though it only inconveniences that 1 old lady next door? We don't allow it, as a society. That's not because we don't think there's a net benefit there -- because there probably is. It's that the precedent we set is a dangerous one. Whereby we're now allowed to encroach upon the freedoms of others because we perceive the situation to be of a net benefit. We can't make this decision reliably, which is why we just cut out these complex decisions altogether -- stating that you can have a much fun as you like so long as you don't bother others.

This is a point of mine regarding fireworks. Though, I concede/admit that it's not as important as the net 'good' vs net 'bad'.

Then you're not prioritizing intelligence, right? Prioritize, to give priority. The biggest factor. I would have thought the priority here is the net increase/decrease in well-being to the given organism? I don't know. It gets complicated. There are many factors. Either way, I'm glad to see there's some nuance to your position (or more than I thought originally existed).

I think that's because you can't relocate in the same way that you can dine elsewhere. If you know what you're signing up to (loud music etc) then of course, a restaurant or bar shouldn't have to cater to the sensitivities of the minority. They don't have a monopoly on business, and they can eat/drink elsewhere at ease if they choose. They have options. But when you're settled in a neigbourhood, you don't have the same alternatives, as we've already eluded to. You're stuck with (to continue your analogy) loud music, whether you like it or not.

Ayyyy. I didn't get to that bit! Replying as I go. Good to see.

Sure. Or... even having ambidextrous desks. It's almost certainly preferable to have a right-handed desk if you're right-handed. But I wouldn't want my privilege to come at the cost of someone else. Equality is all about stopping the majority ruling over the minority, and I can do just swell with an ambidextrous desk too.

I think it's the opportunity cost that really hits home for me. If I'm at a party and there's no fireworks, it's still a great time. If there are fireworks? It's brilliant for 5-10 minutes, and then it's still as great as the previous example. It's not... Okay --> Brilliant. It's... Great --> Brilliant, for 5-10 minutes. At the cost of... all that stuff. Whereas if I'm sleeping, it almost certainly is a significant decrease in well-being. Or if it wakes my child. Or scares the pet. etc etc.

If you think of any more pro (or anti!) fireworks arguments, please don't hesitate to let me know. Even in this discussion there have been 1 or 2 occasions where I've written something, and then scrubbed it out before submitting it. Realizing that the point was garbage. So yeah -- TLR, if you think of something new, give me a shout.