President Trump

I absolutely get, and agree with your statement.

It's extremely troubling that security of a foreign national assaulted lawful citizens exercising their constitutional rights. I have to say, I'm extremely proud of those D.C police who were stuck in a nearly impossible situation and jumped to protect the citizens, good on them.

 

Yeah. I mean, if Erdogan's bodyguards seem to find this completely acceptable to do to foreign citizens on foreign soil, what are they doing in their own country, where there's no media (Erdogan purged the media) and no courts (he purged non-AKP judges) to put a check on their power?

I feel really, really bad for Turkish citizens right now. Living there has gotta suck, especially knowing that you can't get out of the country (if you were deemed anti-government your passport was revoked).

 

Yeah, it's crazy how quick Turkey descended into a modern secular democratic government to a theocracy.

While I feel bad for it's citizens, I believe they have the same opportunity as any citizen under an authoritarian regime - They can and should revolt and assert their dominance. It's the only way to depose a corrupt/authoritarian government.

What is the most worrisome is Turkey's quick shift towards Russia, despite having hundreds of years of conflict and rivalry.

 

This is a geo-political issue. European countries and the U.S are cautious about stepping on Erdogan's toes. He holds millions of economic-migrants within Turkish borders, which he has threatened to release onto the EU in the past, (the most recent one was the whole ordeal with Turkish officials campaigning for Turkish political elections in the Netherlands). Better to make him a friend, no matter how insane he is, then to be on his bad side.

 

I respect everyone's views on politics and think it is good to voice your opinion. That being said, I find that it is best for me to back away from the debates for a while. If I do not respond it it because I have "I unwatched" the thread. Have a good time!

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/...eakingNews&contentID=65315008&pgtype=Homepage

Flynn stopped military plan Turkey opposed – after being paid as its agent



The Trump team did know about Flynn, cause Flynn told them himself. I'm getting pretty frustrated with all the lies.

@metr0n0me - Pence led the transition team, Pence knew about Flynn.

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2017, Original Post Date: May 17, 2017 ---

@metr0n0me

House majority leader to colleagues in 2016: ‘I think Putin pays’ Trump

 

They don't care. Erdogan is increasingly popular in Turkey, because the educated people (the people who generally oppose him) have mostly left to Europe. Erdogan appeals to Islam to gain votes, and the AKP is specifically broad in terms of social policies, in order to attract the broadest support base possible. Therefore, he's insanely popular, because the conflict right now is: educated urban middle-class (who are emigrating), vs. the Kurds (who are being persecuted and are technically an illegal party) vs. everyone else. Obviously "everyone else" wins here.

So while yes, they should revolt and assert their dominance, they won't, because the majority of Turkish citizens can't see what's being done to their country. Of the ones that can, they're either purged, blacklisted, and watched by the government for suspicious movement (the thousands of judges, teachers, and professionals that the government fired and placed travel bans on), imprisoned (the military personnel and police who participated in the "coup"), or leaving the country (everyone who can).

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2017, Original Post Date: May 18, 2017 ---

Sure, while it's better not to make enemies with Erdogan, you don't necessarily need to praise him and stroke his ego, as Trump seems to be doing.

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2017 ---

From the article you linked:

Mr. Flynn’s disclosure, on Jan. 4, was first made to the transition team’s chief lawyer, Donald F. McGahn II, who is now the White House counsel. That conversation, and another one two days later between Mr. Flynn’s lawyer and transition lawyers, shows that the Trump team knew about the investigation of Mr. Flynn far earlier than has been previously reported.

Where does Pence come into play here?

 

January 4th: Flynn informs transition team he was under investigation for Turkey lobbying

March 9th: Pence says story that Flynn registering earlier in day as foreign agent is first he heard of it. Calls it affirmation of Flynn resignation

Pence led the transition team

So we're right back to best case scenario is incompetence, worse case something more nefarious.

 

Trump campaign had at least 18 undisclosed contacts with Russia.

"Conversations between Flynn and Kislyak accelerated after the Nov. 8 vote as the two discussed establishing a back channel for communication between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that could bypass the U.S. national security bureaucracy, which both sides considered hostile to improved relations, four current U.S. officials said."

 

Apparently Flynn's lawyers just informed the SIC he will not be honoring the subpoena.

 

He probabaly thinks it would be better to go to jail for contempt of congress than it would be going for treason, or whatever charge his evidence would support.

 

This would also happen under a democrat president. We need turkey for our airbases. Military action is vital in the middle east and they have a monopoly on our access to the region.

 

I completely understand the rationale here; however, I don't understand why this has to involve praise of Erdogan and his tactics. At the very least you can just stay silent.

 

He praised his security guards actions in particular? Trump made no defense of the beating of us citizens by a foreign governments thugs.

 

I mean, regardless who is in the Oval Office and regardless of how much import Turkey is to NATO (Excluding their recent swing towards Russia anyway)

Security Forces of another nation attacked our citizens for exercising their constitutional right.

A response of some kind is needed. I'm not talking war, but this cannot stand.

 

Well no, but Trump congratulated Erdogan on the results of his "referendum" that essentially gave him unchecked power, and Trump hasn't really said anything on Erdogan's human rights violations in Turkey. And as Erdogan's bodyguards were beating up protestors outside, Trump "warmly welcomed" Erdogan to DC and said: "Today, we face a new enemy in the fight against terrorism, and again we seek to face this threat together." Nevermind the fact that Erdogan refuses to take a hard stance on ISIS, and instead focuses on killing Kurdish groups that are trying to fight ISIS.

And seriously, if Turkey is going to come to the US and attack our citizens, maybe it's time to stop being p*ssies and start doing something about it. At that point, if Turkey is willing to harm innocent US citizens on US soil, can they really be considered an ally? It might be time to start looking for another ally in the region.

 

@metr0n0me @Deinen I agree that it's terrible what happened, but there are no good options. It might make us feel good to criticize turkey but we literally need them. Everyone else in the region wants to kill us.

 

I am completely aware of the role Turkey plays in our worldview. This isn't about feeling better or making sure we waggle our finger at them - Our constitution literally gives us the power to be armed in order to keep tyranny from (our) government at bay. This is one of the fundamental and enshrined principles of who we are and our place in this world.

It is against the very core of our being to allow a foreign entity to come and assault our citizens for being American. I don't agree with McCain much, but god dang is he a good American, I suppose his suggestion - toss the ambassador out.

But to let this simply go us unAmerican and tyrannical - It cannot be done if we are truly America.

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2017, Original Post Date: May 18, 2017 ---

Gotta admit, that's just funny.

Comey once tried to blend in with WH curtains to avoid Trump: report

 

I guess even Blue_Marlin ultimately couldn't defend Trump anymore...

 

5$ says the mods made him do it.