President Trump

Thanks, I couldn't remember the name of that for the life of me.

 

No, your just being ignorant. You people get mad when someone disagrees and then when you try to say their opinion and it doesnt work. You get mad.

No.

 

It's really a waste of time to argue with someone who refuses to learn anything from a debate. This is called being willfully blind. Sorry, but your attempts to express your "opinions" are only going to bring you hate. STOP. I know you want to say something stupid like, "I'm just expressing my opinions, they are just butthurt," or something of the sort. However, you need to accept one general fact about mature debaters: they will not hate you as a debater because of your opinions, but because you disregard facts. Nearly all debaters, even ones that think minimum wage should stay the same will hate your debating style. Most people in the debate section will despise you just as a person, not as a debater, if you simply told us that you want people to suffer in poverty. After all, that is what you would be arguing if you accepted the facts?

On the bright side, your posts have only come across as stupidity for now.

 

Look, as I mentioned earlier, I'm fine if you disagree with me. I have absolutely no problems with that. It's just that when you ignore facts and statistics, and just keep on going over and over about your preconceived notions that have 0 basis in reality that I get mad.

I don't mind that you have opinions, but the fact that you keep sticking to them despite the preponderance of evidence otherwise is really frustrating. Like global warming--there's overwhelming evidence to support the claim that industrial activity within the last 2 centuries has

1) introduced large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere and
2) accelerated the process of global warming

Yet you refuse to believe it.

There's also the fact that you rely too heavily on anecdotal evidence when debating. Sure, it's fine to tell a story once in a while, or whatever, but when anecdotal evidence forms the entire basis of your argument, the argument is on shaky ground. I'm really happy that your aunt and uncle and family members are doing super well, but their lives are also not representative of the hundreds of millions of people, with different experiences, and different needs, in America.

Furthermore, you repeatedly commit logical fallacies, such as red herring fallacies (changing the subject), tu quoque (but Clinton did....) and hasty generalizations (the most notable of these is "poor people are lazy," and other things like that).

Even though I really do agree with some of your points, the way in which you debate them is almost always invalid, and completely misses the point. As a result, even though some of your conclusions are solid, I can't support the way you back them up.

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2017, Original Post Date: May 4, 2017 ---

That being said, I do really apologize for getting mad earlier. Let's just say today hasn't been a very good day for me, and I was wrong to express that frustration here.

 

Right, he was just a god damned idiot before, now he's a jackass.

Obama helped the banks. he literally gave them 700 billion dollars.

I could be wrong, but isn't it the house republicans working on the health care bill?

Exactly, for ages, not anymore.

*calls someone a god damn idiot*
*tells someone not to be immature*
Now, please stop being such a god damn idiot and taking my posts out

 

It just passed the house, apparently it's not going to make it as-is through the Senate.

 

so maybe wait until the final thing is put forward for judgement until freaking out?

 

This just passed

H.R.1628 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): American Health Care Act of 2017

Please tell me how the bill that just passed is going to be an improvement on the ACA, please. It was pushed for a vote that the CBO cannot even analyze the new AHCA bill from the old one, which was estimated it would have made over 20,000,000 lose insurance coverage.

Or how the charging ratio from 3 to 1 to 5 to 1 will help the elderly who get charged some of the highest rates? Now it won't be 3x over average price, it can be up to 5x!

House Republican: Trumpcare could ‘severely harm the health and lives’ of my constituents

Even house republicans recognize how horrible the bill is.

GOP congressman on Obamacare replacement: 'I don't think any individual has read the whole bill'

Maybe judging it before it's passed as law is the best thing one can do against any law, stemming from Republicans or Democrats.

 

How many of those people were forced to get health care and didn't want it in the first place?

Not passed as a law, presented as a law.
You will get to see the final version of the law before its voted on.

 

Sure people don't want to be forced into healthcare, but this is the only way the government can come up with to pay for the ones who really do need healthcare, since the people who need healthcare the most are the ones who make it cost more while those who need healthcare the least offset the costs of the rest.

 

If you are talking about the tax penalty, then that penalty isn't removed, just shifted to the corporations, who will get to charge you 30% more on your premium for lapses of coverage.

If you start off with a ball of **** and shine it up a bit, it's still a ball of ****.

 

Right, this is my issue with nationalized health care. If I don't need/want health care, I shouldn't be required to subsidize anyone else's healthcare.

 

But you subsidize everyone's health care, especially when you have large amounts of people who have no insurance still using Urgent Care/Emergency rooms without paying a dime, because they don't have health insurance and have no money to pay. Hospitals either sue people with no money and get nothing, or spread those costs around which leads to extremely high priced hospital bills, which cause insurance companies to raise their premiums.

We pay for it either way, at least with socialized health care we'll have a tool to supervise and control costs, especially if medicaid can negotiate prices in a capitalistic fashion, which they currently prohibited from doing, thus prevented from getting the best price for their purchase.

 

good point, but, what if I don't want/need to use a hospital at all? Even if the hospital prices increase a lot, I have the choice to not pay to use a hospital. The government would give you no choice.

(I edited this post, the original post was/is what deinen quoted, I started editing it almost immediately after I posted it, it wasn't out of malicious intent or trying to make anyone look bad, I just thought about it longer and thought I had a point against it)

 

To be fair, there is quite a difference in the amount you notice from indirectly paying compared to a noticeable difference in a tax bill, I completely get that. As Bernie Sanders framed it: Yes, you will pay more in taxes, but the money you save from not paying high premiums, the overall result is that people save money this way.

Additionally, the AHCA still mandates coverage but in a indirect and not tax way. Insurance companies will be allowed to charge a 30% markup on the premium for a number of months after, whether or not that 30% is above the maximum penalty of 2085 under the ACA it still means the money is going into a stock ticker rather than an entity, with smart government, could use those funds to further pay for healthcare or anything else that is deemed beneficial for society.

I completely agree the government has a limited role, but I believe one of those roles should be the benefit of society as a whole because it directly makes our country stronger and more successful. Corporations have a singular responsibility of creating wealth, they are not responsible for making society better, or healthier, or happier - Why should we keep entrusting them to do something that is not their point of existence? Healthcare and education should be socialized only because it makes America a stronger nation.

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2017, Original Post Date: May 4, 2017 ---

You don't always have a choice. What if you're in a mall and have a stroke and somebody calls an ambulance? What if you're in a vehicle accident and knocked unconscious? There is a whole wide range of issues that crop up that a hospital or medical care is not avoidable and those are exactly the type of services hospitals are forced to give anyway, even if the patient cannot pay.

 

Right, but in theory, someone could live a life free from any serious ailments, so they wouldn't have to pay.

 

Additionally, unlike consumer products, you can't price shop medical care and make an informed decision on choosing the lowest cost option on a normal day, let alone an emergency situation.

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2017, Original Post Date: May 4, 2017 ---

And that is the inherent issue. Ideologies of liberalism and conservatism in theory don't account for the fact we don't live a theoretical life, and messy things happen all the time. How things should be and how things are are two very different things, why waste time bemoaning how it should be when it'll save us all time and money to just deal with things how they are now?

 

Okay, you are right. Many Republicans don't like the bill. But how many Democrats hated Obamacare? and how many Democrats love and voted for Trumpcare? Atleast the Republicans are trying to help the American people.

My family has no children in the home. We are all 18+. Why are we paying for pediatric dental care? You talk about "not being able to afford health care" (which literally everyone was being charged out the butt for Obama care and weren't receiving full treatment) but you are making people pay for things they don't need/use! No wonder why its so expensive.

Also, under Obama care. Cancer patients and rape victims got minimal to no health care. And you tell me Obamacare was "for the people". Yeah right.

 

It's a step up, that's all anyone is saying. Nobody said it was perfect. Anyways, most rape victims don't come out or they get denied for lack of evidence. That's one of the main parts the current rape problem.

 

Its not perfect. The senate is going to revise it and possibly change a lot. Idk, however its a big step in the right direction. This is a campaign promise he had and now he is giving his promises. This is what the American people have wanted since 2009 when they realized how badly Obamacare was done. Its a step closer to "Making America Great Again".

If the United States (Obamacare) healthcare denies someone healthcare because they are a rape victim or a cancer patient. Its not a good country. This is revising that issue and making healthcare affordable and better for all the American people.

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2017, Original Post Date: May 4, 2017 ---

Obama in 2009:
"If you like your doctor and your healthcare plan. You can keep your doctor and your healthcare plan"
*Here we are in 2017 and we found that to be...a lie.*

Trump and Paul Ryan in 2017:
"If you like your doctor and your healthcare plan, you can keep your doctor and your healthcare plan"
(Let me say it hasn't been through the Senate so I can't say if that is true or not, yet. I think they will keep their promise)


Sean Hannity: (right now) claims you'll keep the same doctors and plans plus saving on average $2,500 per year. We will also see if that is true or not. So before you are quick to judge it. Give it a chance just like you all gave the failed Obamacare a chance.

For a minute I was wanting Speaker Ryan to resign from that spot but now I'm second guessing that because man did he pull through this time!