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Preliminary Suggestions on Moving Forward

Discussion in 'Denied' started by reika, Aug 8, 2020.

  1. reika

    reika Popular Meeper

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    • (Reset) Consolidate the server into ONE towny world with minimal "distractions" like minigames
    This might take the shape of spawn, towny, wild, minigame. The exact organisation should be ironed out, but what is absolutely unacceptable is having two towny worlds with a fifteen-player peak-time crowd, and then wanting to add ****ing minigames on top of it! There is NO reason for skyblock to be in development. I don't really care how unique or interesting you think it is, it is not going to accomplish anything with regards to bringing new players on (it's literally already advertised because the server ads aren't actually updated, lmao)

    This is also completely subjective, but I feel like minigames attract the younger crowd, which is used to instant gratification in games, and more generally doesn't want to invest the time required into building large projects in towns. It can take months to build a town into a metropolis or even into something one would consider large, and that isn't something that appeals to immature children, which is a good thing.

    resetting the server appears to be the vastly popular opinion outside of the friend group, and even some of them agree with it bc they see that the server is dying

    additional arguments include the fact that the economy is already completely controlled by anyone established. it will take new players hours daily of grinding to really compete, and with the server the way it is nobody's staying anyway

    • Assemble a council primarily comprising older players and those from outside the existing influential friend group as a significant source of feedback and suggestions for the reset
    This is going to anger the already existing "community" (one friend group), but according to basically everyone that played in the revamp but doesn't play anymore, they alienate people that aren't like them. Not only that, but the server's literal top in the past two months or so is ~25 people. Usually, it's between 10-15. Taking this friend group's suggestions is what got the player count down from maybe 70 when the revamp hit back to what it was before. They are clearly not who you should be listening to in order to grow the server.

    Most importantly, CONCRETE PLANS need to made out of this. The community needs to know EXACTLY what is planned to be done. Almost nobody trusts the staff anymore because of their lack of transparency. Things need to be clearly outlined and then completed.

    • Economy: Nerf gambling
    this is pretty self-explanatory, it's absolutely retarded that people can get (consistently) to baltop just by gambling, and its actually nothing new. dicing should be way less effective. Frankly, I think gambling would be best off, at least against the server directly, severely favouring the house. Players will then make casinos that also favour the house.

    @PseudoGod is very knowledgeable on this topic. i don't really care what the friend group thinks of him, I know that he is someone who should be consulted and worked with to make the eco as good as possible. From the beginning, this was a towny server with an economy. It needs to actually function in order for the server to be enjoyable. (so if you don't want his help at least find capable people and listen to them)

    • Staff
    The current staff team is too large. Moreover, when a lot of people in the friend group that has basically killed the server are staff, other people get alienated. I hate to use deinen's words, but this should be treated like a business. Just today, we were having a serious conversation regarding trying to revitalise the server and we had staff members come in saying random unfunny bullshit. (Specifically, it was calling another person a bean. You can't make this **** up.)
    @7acespade has a lot to say about this (and he's right in that a lot of staff are literally just the same person copy-pasted) as well. @minetifa experienced this as well.

    and i mean seriously? somebody joins with 9 posts, an application with like one ****ing comma in three paragraphs, and gets helper? Why was this problem compounded? Because you wanted him to stay?
    not to beat on the guy but his application would have been ripped apart years ago when ppl actually played, and the funny part is i'm pretty sure we had like maybe double-2.5x the staff for 40 times the playerbase
    • Clue needs to assert ownership
    Fuzzlr does nothing. That's the bottom line. I can't even remember the last time the guy actively played on the server. All he's done for the past half decade is log in sporadically, say hi, and leave. His ownership of the server consists of downright awful decisions like dropping the player count from 1,000+ to 300-350 literally overnight in 2013, and he seems to not care in the slightest that his server has died. That's fine, he's probably a busy guy and hasn't had the time to bother with the server. He should just give up, or sell, ownership, if that's how he's going to treat a server where the playerbase actually wants things to improve.

    Simply put, when Clueless can't fix basic things like server list advertisements being literally 3+ years old because he doesn't have access, and Fuzzlr can't be bothered to do it even though it takes a matter of minutes at most, that's a problem.

    i might edit this post in the future if i remember more things or someone brings up new ideas
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  2. Epicdude141

    Epicdude141 Celebrity Meeper

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    The absolute dream team of references
     
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  3. SurvivingSword11

    SurvivingSword11 Celebrity Meeper

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    I salute you
     
  4. smk

    smk Celebrity Meeper

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    Everyone wants to enjoy the game; but I find it funny you think kids are the only ones fickle enough to enjoy quick fixes of dopamine in the form of minigames.

    towny is a boring game when you play to the point of basic completion. Everyone reaches the point they have everything they need and the economy goes stagnant. Then everyone quits until there’s a reset
     
  5. reika

    reika Popular Meeper

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    the only players left worth listening to
    at no point did i say kids are the only ones but clearly i worded it improperly so i just mean that fewer children will be attracted as opposed to a full minigame server/hub, and a lot of children that do join will probably be turned off by the slowness of building up towns and leave too

    clearly if it worked from 2012-15 to the tune of hundreds of players it can work now, plenty of towny servers r doing just fine
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Kling

    Kling Break blocks not hearts

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    The day Fuzzlr doesn’t own the server, the server shuts not long after if it’s owned by someone without deep pockets, it rarely pays for itself.
    The in game changes however are controlled by Clue and Lord, they have the tools to make this an enjoyable server to which hasn’t happened. The things like editing voting sites make no change when the server is in this state.
     
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  7. reika

    reika Popular Meeper

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    clue told us two days ago that it does pay for itself

    clue should be able to make the changes he wants to when he wants to, fuzzlr shouldn't inhibit him from doing anything and he made it sound like that was the case so if its not then i guess moot point
     
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  8. Kling

    Kling Break blocks not hearts

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    That’s very surprising, for the server to have such a cheap host there has to be downsides. With this low of a playerbase, whoever is spending their money more power to them I guess.
    As stated all these changes that have happened to the server while they have been in power will of had little involvement of Fuzzlr since I’m sure he will be more focus on Otis and how it’s spoken from Clue to you the players. At the end of the day the server is unenjoyable and they have had the tools to change that which is visible from the additions and changes already made. Other things like editing voting sites are meaningless when the server is in the horrendous state it is in.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 9, 2020 ---
    I agree the staff team is a large problem, a good few of them are only capable of moderating and do not have what it takes to create outlines the server needs and the team has poor leadership from high staff. The ridiculous spam posted by some is habits they’ve had since they first started playing the server and since having their little friend group encourages them to also part take. It’s not making the server more “fun or enlightening” it’s just annoying to the majority.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 9, 2020 ---
    Their councils are unneeded and give somewhat power to those who don’t need it I agree, also in regards to the comment of “alienating those outside the friend group” has particularly happened within the staff team as well.
     
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  9. Natsu

    Natsu Celebrity Meeper

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    Micromanagement never works. It increases work and stress for all parties involved while accomplishing nothing. What we need is an understanding between everyone or else any attempts will fail. That includes both staff and nonstaff. I wonder what happened to the meep Tello but keeping that public and up to date sounds like a good first step.
     
  10. reika

    reika Popular Meeper

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    it surprised me too, matt played on an alt and in the course of two days he had been purchased $70 of free ranks by random people, so it seems to be a few people keeping the server up. the voting sites being unable to be changed was a tangentially related thing i only brought up because i think it happens on a much larger scale, ie clue can't do **** when he actually wants to because fuzzlr is inactive

    yeah they're goody two shoes and are honestly very unfunny and seem to alienate the more mature players lol

    i literally cannot tell cuddlykittens apart from any of the other female mods, i think id literally rather have the average twitter egirl as staff because at least then their drama can be funny instead of these literal drones we have now. im sure they do a good job of moderating but in all reality there's nothing to moderate on this server because it's an echo chamber
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 10, 2020 ---
    you dont know what "micromanagement" means, trello is also pretty bad and its layout is definitely not everyones cup of tea

    im saying that they need to actually do whatever they say theyre going to do because they have literally been doing this for years where they make promises and then don't do anything and keep making excuses, people are tired of it and the returning players saw a whole lot of the same thing and then they left bc of it
     
  11. Epicdude141

    Epicdude141 Celebrity Meeper

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    So for my actual input, your thread and your suggestions are like if somebody took a ton of psychedelics, heard what the vast majority of the playerbase wanted and then decided to vomit it on a forum post.
     
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  12. Natsu

    Natsu Celebrity Meeper

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    There is nothing constructive about this comment. Yes, the current staff team is problematic but your attacks against these individuals will only worsen the situation. I agree with most of your ideas but the way you present them is needlessly hostile.

    If you don't trust the staff team in doing the right thing, you will feel the need to closely observe and control everything they do, which is the definition of micromanagement. Of course, solid plans need to be made, and the community needs to be consulted for important decisions. A real-time, public information source would be sufficient for all other purposes, whether it be Trello or the tool you prefer.
     
  13. reika

    reika Popular Meeper

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    no drug refs on meepcraft
    nobody trusts them to do the right thing what are u talking about
    i dont feel the need to closely control anything they do i just want them to stop hiding things all the time and lying about them and not delivering on anything

    also just fyi someone was deleting "Big Chungus" from meepcraft discord for like 30 minutes until we got in vc and argued with them about it and "Chugnuts Cheesepie" not being sexual for an hour, if you see no problem with this then i guess i cant really help you
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 11, 2020 ---
    so heres even more of what im talking about
    [​IMG]

    heres some more Imgur

    frankly i thought some of the stuff 7ace and others were saying about the staff was hyperbole but it absolutely isnt, you guys have like 10 clones of the same female staff member doing this and completely shutting down anyone that isnt already friends with them and then wonder why literally nobody stays on the server (let alone joins)

    i was taken aback when i saw this going on and im astounded that you guys are surprised people dont want to stay. because my friends and i aren't like the rest of the server, this is probably going to get ignored because we're too toxic or whatever, but just fyi this **** isn't normal by any metric and your player count pretty much speaks for itself in this case

    if this post gets deleted for having "inappropriate content" or whatever then theyll just be proving my point and this is a lost cause

    i don't really see the reason that like 15 people with 0 individuality or skills apart from moderation (which a wet noodle could do on a lot of mc servers, particularly on this one where there's practically 0 trouble cuz its like 2 friend groups with a lot of overlap) were given staff but it's pretty clear to me that basically anyone different from them in personality is gonna feel out of place
     
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  14. Liam

    Liam Fergalicious, baby

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    First off, you're providing nothing helpful. At all.
    Secondly, yes, I absolutely see what you're saying when attacking a friend group that takes up the majority of the community. Here's what you need to know about cliques, though: Rarely, only one clique will exist at a time. It's arguable that staff is just as secluded and is its own "clique." Both cliques are private, seeing as they're either socially dominant or an application is required. You can't point the finger at just one clique if you're mad at them existing at all.
    The problem with the community is that there are two major friend groups, which doesn't allow new players to stay. Obviously, no one would want to stay in that kind of environment when there's minimal inclusion. There's no specific group to blame, as both groups have put it in effort towards the server.
    This thread, however, does nothing.
     
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  15. Epicdude141

    Epicdude141 Celebrity Meeper

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    So basically for "friend groups" there aren't anymore. It's just staff. The old one (legion) doesn't play anymore, the other one (exegol) doesn't play anymore, the last one (voidgang) doesn't play anymore.
     
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  16. reika

    reika Popular Meeper

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    actually im showing problems and proposing solutions that's very helpful, they prob arent gonna listen and then still wonder why the servers dying when you need DRASTIC changes to fix it

    you saying "they put in effort towards the server" just kind of shows that you didnt read my point at all about the problem involved with that group (them excluding others and others feeling unwelcome/alienated)

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Deljikho

    Deljikho Lazy Swami

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    Reika, could you please provide us with your quantifiable proof that developing Skyblock would not be able to attract any new players? Do you have any data or relatable experience to support this claim, or is this just your personal opinion?

    Putting the target demographic issues aside, it seems that you generally agree that mini-games will attract new players. I would argue that having any new players, regardless of age, is a good thing for the server.

    A higher player count makes the server more appealing to other potential players; in turn, this increases server donations. This could be especially true when you consider the following:

    If someone is used to instant gratification, then they may be more likely to spend $10 or $20 in order to get that instant "advantage" in Towny. I agree that many of these types of players won't stay in Towny for a long period, but any donation is a net positive for the server, right? Would these players be less favorable than more patient players that understand they don't need to spend any money in order to enjoy Towny?

    I would argue that a healthy server needs a good mix of instant gratification (ig) players and patient players alike. The ig players will join for the mini-games, play for a week, explore towny, donate $10, play for another week, and then leave forever. Whereas the patient players will join for Towny, play for a few months, work until they can pay someone meebles for a $20 donation, and continue to play.

    Both types of players fill critical roles that Meep needs: The ig players will continue revolving, thus creating a high, and appealing, player count. The patient players will keep the community strong and tight-knit. Most important;y, both provide viable funding options for keeping the server alive.

    Resetting the server will always be a double-edged sword, and is never as simple as "doing a reset will fix all of our problems." A reset is a great tool to pave the way for new updates, developments, and other major game changes. However, every time the server is reset, it loosens the sense of security than any previous players may have.

    When a player has invested hundreds of hours into creating their town, increasing their wealth, and obtaining their gear, then they typically don't want to see all of that work wasted away with a reset. Any resets that are done need to be justified for the hours that are being lost – meaning that it usually needs to come with a major game update.

    What updates, and major game changes, do you propose should happen during the next server reset? Additionally, how do you propose the development staff split their time in order to make these updates possible? Will you please provide your proposals in a format ranking the importance of each, along with the hours needed to complete, and a detailed list showing how the tech hours should be split during this update. You may want to provide a Gantt chart to help the staff team visualize your concepts.

    This is the only argument you've used in favor of a reset, and it's not a very strong argument to begin with. In any established economy, there will be people performing well based on their longevity with the game. It's the exact same way in real life. The more hours you put in, the more wealth you have – this is why the world is run by people around 65 years old, and why people that are 16 don't have any tangible net worth. You need to invest time into a game in order to get a sizeable share of the equity.

    You're also contradicting yourself in this sentence. Let's have a look:

    So which are you in favor of? Do you want mature players that are okay with a grind and the months it takes to build a metropolis? Or do you want instant gratification players that just want to be at baltop 1 in less than a few days of grinding?

    Are you also able to provide us with any additional arguments as to why the server is in need of a reset?

    Who do you think should choose who is in this assembly? If all of the current players are in one "friend group," and you don't trust that friend group, then is there really anyone that you would trust to pick and choose which old players should form this council?

    So you agree that the current staff team has moderation skills. Is it shocking to you that moderation is almost literally the only thing that qualifies someone to be on the Moderation team? I don't remember it being called the Diverse Personality team, lol.

    Essentially you're saying "staff does a good job at moderating, but I don't like that they all have similar personalities so we should downsize." But you're not presenting any of the cons that come with a large staff team (is it no cons?) and none of the benefits that come from a small staff team.

    Also just so you know:

    I am fairly confident that this quote from Deinen, about how Meep should be treated as a business, was in response to players demanding to have decisions on who should and shouldn't be staff. So it very ironic that you're using that quote but missing 99% of the context.

    I honestly think you're just trolling at this point. You make baseless claims, you offer subjective opinions as unavoidable truths, you contradict yourself, you miss the context of your quotes, and you make no solid attempts to help reform the server. I'd applaud you if you actually put in some thought into your "suggestions," but that just doesn't seem to be here.

    Maybe you should restart by listing your actual suggestions on a sheet of paper. Iron out the details yourself, since you don't trust staff to do it anyway, and then present it in a way that shows quantifiable evidence of the pros and cons associated with your suggestions.
     
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  18. Liam

    Liam Fergalicious, baby

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    Seems like you're just complaining to me, but I'm no Meepcraft Expert. :)
     
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  19. Kling

    Kling Break blocks not hearts

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    Now I realise you’re THAT player talking in Chillis recently you’re a cancer. You provide nothing but annoyance to this community, although I agree with some points you’ve made your behaviour is that of a 15yo.
     
  20. reika

    reika Popular Meeper

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    what is there not to complain about on this server? shorter list
    dont know what "chillis" is but im pretty sure it's klitcher's sad attempt at making a meepcraft clone, in which case why on earth would i involve myself with dumb stuff like that

    honestly anyone branded "an annoyance" in a community populated overwhelmingly by immature teenagers and puerile morons should take that as a badge of honour
     

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