If you can vote, who will you vote for; if you can't, who would you want to vote for?

Sexual assault victims usually don't come out unless they have some basis to prove it. They would have been ruined if they made accusations against trump without any proof. Now? They at least have something to defend themselves with.

Keep in mind, if you accuse someone of rape... you can ruin their lives even if you're lying and have no proof. IF you cannot prove it, they can easily countersue you for slander/libel. That's also why we see Sexual assault victims come out in large numbers at 1 time (like with bill Cosby).

 

your smart look it up

I"m glad you are starting to understand, thats all she wants

do you at all read history? other countries have gone down this road before, again look it up, instead of just saying what first comes to mind

Exactly she has proven what she can and will do, Trump is really rich and has a successful company so he does have leadership experience.

Read the post I responded to, you miss interpreted (on purpose or accident?)

lol agree

?

wrong, don't put words in my mouth. Trump is better than Hillary, but he will not be good for politics. But Better Trump than Hillary

Are you in media because your awfully good at twisting others words. You have no Idea what my "young Life" has consisted of
1. My best friend was stabbed to death at school
2. I was raped at the age of 10
3. I tried 3 times to commit suicide and ended up in the hospital for over a year
4. I was beaten by my own Uncle, and he threatend to kill me.
5. I am still afraid that he is going to get out of jail and come hurt me again.

So Don't judge me or my life

I see that you do

The crime has risen since he became president

Wrong, Murder has gone up by 10.8% Racism has gone up as well, more bullying and higher drug traffic

They are +1

Dude, making a crack at my parents is not acceptable. And I am BTW a good judge a character if someone told me or not, im not an idiot

again better Trump than Hillary I dislike both, but Hillary more

 

your smart look it up

"Terrorism Hillary couldn't get ride of it when Isis had 30 members..." <--- I can't look it up. I need help from you understanding what you meant, because it's not coherent English.

I"m glad you are starting to understand, thats all she wants

I understood prior to you engaging with me. "She's a capitalist power-hungry shill that 'focus groups' every other sentence." Post #165. The BoP is on you to demonstrate that this is all she wants though.

do you at all read history? other countries have gone down this road before, again look it up, instead of just saying what first comes to mind

I don't think I understand what you're saying. What does " this road" mean? What makes you think the best solution to a corrupt government, is to elect the most inexperienced narcissistic authoritarian that America has ever seen in modernity?

Exactly she has proven what she can and will do, Trump is really rich and has a successful company so he does have leadership experience.

Are you saying that running a successful business gives you the required acumen to make someone a good or credible president to the most important country on the planet?

Read the post I responded to, you miss interpreted (on purpose or accident?)

I'm criticizing Trump, and the process of reforming our imperfect political system. You then just invoke Obama seemingly out of nowhere. I've tried to clarify, and now you're double down on your reference to Obama?

?

Tribalism. Identity politics. "You guys".

wrong, don't put words in my mouth [and claim that I think Trump is a chance agent that will smash broken U.S. politics to pieces.]

You -- "there is no best way to reform our system except completely restarting."

So Don't judge me or my life

I think I should, when appropriate. "i have had a hard enough life as it is, there has not been one good president in office since I was born" <--- that doesn't mean much. You've only been alive for 2 presidents. You're using a cliched phrase that's typically uttered by the elderly that have seen decades of hardship and political unrest. You're just 15.

I see that you do

Creepy.

The crime has risen since he became president

Source?

Wrong, Murder has gone up by 10.8% Racism has gone up as well, more bullying and higher drug traffic

Source?

Dude, making a crack at my parents is not acceptable.

I'm making a slight crack at you. Parents praise kids. They're not exactly the most objective observers of your talent, are they?

And I am BTW a good judge a character if someone told me or not, im not an idiot

Despite the hostility and mockery, I'll take high-road on this occasion. Grammar and spelling be damned. "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

 

The thing is... There is nothing that I can say to change your mind... You will hold to your opinion and I will hold to mind... the fact that you used the word engaging goes to show that you see this a battle, it is, but I do not wish to fight you. I have stated the facts that I have researched (yes researched) and I have not over stepped my bounds and insulted you personally (on purpose, if I did Im sorry). You have insulted me and It is not profitable for me to fight you back. I respect your opinion But I absolutely disagree. You have twisted my words to state your view, I did not mock you and I was not trying to be hostile. If you thought other wise I'm very sorry. This is not my concession, I believe that what happens will happen and This as turned into an argument which is sad and immature. My Sources are both Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Trump honestly Is not half as bad as you are saying he is, but who cares what I think. I play meepcraft to enjoy myself and to make friends. this is doing neither so Im sorry you think I was being "Hostile and Mocking" I an not in a glass house nor am I throwing stones. I have stated my opinion now it is time for me to move on. I hope this does not in any way make us enemies.

Best of luck in Life,
Chris

 

Innocent until proven guilty. He may have said something about 'grabbing them by the ...', that does not mean he has sexually assaulted anyone. When I saw the video, to me it seemed more like making an exaggeration as he got carried away. Everyone gets carried away sometimes and says something they didn't necessarily mean to say, including putting things the wrong way.


@TheDebatheist
And every time she's been pressed on that, she admits that it isn't really a no-fly zone. She's misusing that word. "Do as I say, not as I do.", is what she's selling.

Source? I have not seen her say it isn't a no fly zone. In fact, this is what she said in the last debate

She is also asked what she will do if Russia fly into Syrian airspace anyway, a question that she completely ignores.

I'm not sure how closely you've been following this election, but Donald Trump explicitly stated that he'd intentionally target the families of terrorists (civilians) live on television in front of millions. Multiple times. Both in the primary and presidential debates.

Source?

Killing civilians and targeting civilians are very different. Regrettably, you have to kill civilians if you want to take out terrorists. It's the unfortunate inevitability of 'Collateral Damage'.

Do you have to kill civilians if you want to take out terrorists? Probably. Is saying "To have a no-fly zone you have to take out all of the air defense, many of which are located in populated areas, so our missiles, even if they are standoff missiles so we’re not putting our pilots at risk — you’re going to kill a lot of Syrians." in any way justifiable? No. Does this look a lot like she is. in fact, also targeting civilians? Yes.

Words *are* actions. Minutes after Hillary said she'd be tough on private prisons, stocks in private prisons plummeted. Words matter. We have good reason to believe that Trump's actions will be much worse than Hillary's.

What action is much worse than strongly provoking Russia (possibly starting a war with them) and targeting Syrian civilians? A wall that will never get through congress anyway? The vetting of refugees? What good reason are you talking about?

She's a populist, right. She's accountable to the whims of her people. That's not a terrible thing, necessarily. Not ideal, but not awful.

I disagree, I do think it's a terrible thing. Saying absolutely anything to be elected because you're power hungry? Sounds pretty bad to me.

Actually, it seems that he only added ~50% to the national debt as opposed to 200%. Most importantly, in relation to GDP? It only went up by somewhere between 20%-50%.

Well, the debt when he started was ~10 trillion. It is now ~20 trillion. So it must have gone up by at least 100%. I initially meant to write doubled, not tripled.

20-50% is a huge range, and neither of those numbers are good. only 20%? only 50%?!?!

 

Source?



She is also asked what she will do if Russia fly into Syrian airspace anyway, a question that she completely ignores.

Exactly.

Source?





... I could go on. A quick google search provides ample results of this kind.

Do you have to kill civilians if you want to take out terrorists? Probably. Is saying "To have a no-fly zone you have to take out all of the air defense, many of which are located in populated areas, so our missiles, even if they are standoff missiles so we’re not putting our pilots at risk — you’re going to kill a lot of Syrians." in any way justifiable? No.

Yes. I don't think you're accurately using the following words. In **any way**? Are there any circumstances in which it's justifiable? Of course. 0.0001% of circumstances still means that there are ways in which it's justifiable.

What action is much worse than strongly provoking Russia (possibly starting a war with them)

She's not. Listen to her words on the """"no-fly zone"""".

I disagree, I do think it's a terrible thing. Saying absolutely anything to be elected because you're power hungry? Sounds pretty bad to me.

"She's **accountable** to the whims of her people". She's saying and doing almost anything to be elected. When you have to cater to the views of the people to do this, it's not terrible. She can't just say whatever she likes without following up on it, otherwise she'd be impeached.

Well, the debt when he started was ~10 trillion. It is now ~20 trillion. So it must have gone up by at least 100%. I initially meant to write doubled, not tripled.

Look at the sources I provided, they address this.

20-50% is a huge range, and neither of those numbers are good. only 20%? only 50%?!?!

Only, relative to the "double, triple!" lies that everyone keeps spouting. Look at the links I provide, please.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 26, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 26, 2016 ---

@Garde7 -- The thing is... There is nothing that I can say to change your mind... You will hold to your opinion and I will hold to mind...

That's all you. I want no part of that description.

I find it odd that people parade closed-mindedness like this. Why do you consider it virtuous, or not worthy of immediate correction?

Just to make this clear, there are many things that would change my mind, and I would absolutely love to be presented with them. I don't want to be wrong for a second more than I have to be, and if you have the 'silver bullet' for my disdain of Trump? I want to -- no, need to hear it. I want data. I want links to sources. I want evidence, and logical argument.

If you can show me that Trump isn't *really* a blustering ignoramous? That he's well-read on foreign policy, and his public persona is nothing like his private? That he can take criticism well? That he's not as authoritarian as he sounds? That he isn't going to rely on Mike Pence as much as I believe him to?

Answering any of those would allow me to shift my position closer to yours. Which leads me to an obvious question(s):

What would change your mind on this topic? What would I have to do, to get you to change your position on this issue? What's the best reason you have for supporting Trump, and would you stop supporting him if I were to sufficiently dismantle it?

 

1. Prove that she wont take away freedom giving more power to the government
2. Prove that she had nothing to do with Bengazi
3. Prove that she had no idea what a C meant on the confidential emails
4. Prove that the email hack wasn't an inside job from her own people.
5. Prove that she can do a better job than Trump at leading this country, with out using the same insults over and over again.
6. Prove that she will keep her word on government issues
7. Prove that she didn't kill our ambassador
8. Prove that Bill isn't a rapist

I noticed when you answer people with you comments that you insult the other person. Why is that? If you really wanted to win peolpe to your side you would stop throwing fire. You dislike Trump because he's a jerk and a Bully. So don't be one Please.
I admire that you have an ability to change your mind on a lot of subjects, the reason I said there is nothing you can say to change my mind is because if you did, I would know you were lying. You can't prove the things above and that's why you can't change my mind.

 

@Garde7 -- [Prove these 8 claims]

I can't prove those things, by definition, because I can't disprove the future. I don't know that she won't run the country into the ground -- I'm not a psychic. However, I do have what I believe to be very good reasons to think that she won't. The same goes for you. You can't know that Trump will be good for the country. All you have are reasons to believe one way or the other.

(There are a few other claims in there that ask me to prove the nature of her mind. Again, I can't do that. I can't know that she didn't know what (C) meant. No-one can. You're asking me to accomplish the impossible. The only one that I can even attempt if reworded slightly, is #5. The reasons as to why she'll be better at leading the country, than Trump.)

I noticed when you answer people with you comments that you insult the other person. Why is that? If you really wanted to win peolpe to your side you would stop throwing fire. You dislike Trump because he's a jerk and a Bully. So don't be one Please.

Can you quote my insults, so I know the comments that you have a problem with? I can only assume that you're referring to 'you're parading your closed-mindedness'. Is that right?

In spite of that brash comment... you've just told us twice in two comments that you are being closed-minded. :/ Publicly declaring it with seemingly no concern for this trait.

"You can't prove the things above and that's why you can't change my mind."

You explain what it would take to change your mind, and then in the next breath, you tell me that these are impossible hurdles to clear. Admitting that I can't do anything to change your mind.

It's hardly 'bullying' if you admit that my 'insults' are true and that you seemingly have no problem claiming that you're closed-minded.

If you can't change your mind, what's the point in even having one?

 

You just stated that you can't prove them, that does not mean I have a closed mind. It just means that you are incapable of changing it. I am not stating i have a closed mind, I am stating that I have solid beliefs, that you are inept to sway. quote your insults? It is not so much the insults as to how you twist other people's words to try to what? What you say about reasons goes both ways your right. You believe you have good reasons and your sticking by them. Exactly like I am doing. So you can't rightfully call me close minded with out using that same term for yourself. The difference between you and I is you can't seem to write anything without some sort of bite. I have agreed with on different things as well as disagreed, but maybe agreeing with you was just logical to my closed mind. Your open mind can't agree with me on anything

 

I'm sorry man. That's closed-minded. I don't think you can spin it as a positive like that. It's not a good trait.

adjective
1. having a mind firmly unreceptive to new ideas or arguments:

My reasons can be tackled. They're falsifiable. I want to be proven wrong, to better my understanding of the world. You don't, by your own admission.

On the other hand, you give us unreasonable reasons for your belief, because you would conclude that we are lying even if we did refute them. (and it would take a psychic to even attempt it)

And... you tell me that I routinely insult others, which has morphed into an accusation of quote-mining, that I'm still waiting on evidence for.

If you're going to enter into a 'debate', you need to be willing to change your mind. To have a bar that your interlocutors can reach, to alter your assessment of the world. In one breath, you're claiming 'X' based on your analysis of the reality you experience. Yet in the next, you say that there's nothing that I can show you about reality, that would change what you claim to be true about the reality you experience. By definition, there's a problem there. It's a self-refuting worldview.

 

I told you how to change my mind And the same goes for you. I stated my opinion.
Trump sucks
Hillary Is a liar

I pick Trump
XD or I might move to Holland

Calling me close minded isn't helping me see your point of view, because you are making this a personal insult. It goes to show how intolerant of my ideas you are

 

It's not meant to, at this point. It's to warn others that you are wasting everyone else's time.

> You will hold to your opinion and I will hold to min[e].

> the reason I said there is nothing you can say to change my mind is because if you did, I would know you were lying.

> I am not stating i have a closed mind, I am stating that I have solid beliefs

> You can't [dis]prove [my claims] and that's why you can't change my mind.

> My Sources are both Fox News and Rush Limbaugh.

And with that, I depart.

 

"I noticed when you answer people with you comments that you insult the other person. Why is that? If you really wanted to win peolpe to your side you would stop throwing fire. You dislike Trump because he's a jerk and a Bully. So don't be one Please."

When you Cross the line in a debate and attack the person that your debating with and try to use it as a way to prove your point, it debases the entire conversation and turns it into a fight. I have agreed and complimented you in many places, I also tried to defuse the rising argument. You used that to make another dig at me which is immature and out of line. Listed above are a few of the unneeded and hurtful comments. You did not agree or say anything uplifting in this entire conversation.
My Point Stands.

 

I didn't claim that he was wrong because he got his information there. I just spent 2 pages doing that. I'm merely planting a red flag for everyone to see. Do you not see the asymmetry between you and I?

For over two pages, I engaged and tackled his arguments. Before I lightly heckled him for getting his info via Rush.

You spent two pages protesting the very idea that you should engage and tackle the arguments, dismissing all of them because they came via PJW.

E.g. Your arguments arn't wrong or automatically worthy of dismissal just because you got them from the ranting raving mentally unstable homeless man. It's merely indicative of a particular mindset.

I.e. His arguments about Trump arn't wrong or automatically worthy of dismissal just because he got them from the ranting raving mentally unstable Rush Limbaugh. It's merely indicative of a particular mindset.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 27, 2016 ---

#49 — The Lesser Evil

 

#Trump

 

Trump is a lunatic. A Cheetos Jesus so ignorant he is unable to just not talk. I truly think all of humanity would gain if he died. Him and his psychotic evangelical VP pick can go back to where they came from.

I'm going to rub this in when Trump is on his network spewing the same nonsense he has been. I mean Jesus Christ Alex Jones has been advising him, and he is saying the election is rigged?

The funny thing is, is that he has all but destroyed the republican party and given a stigma to the right ideology, which will result in a decreased influence of your ideology. We will have a huge portion of people now viewing your side as completely out of touch, and will think less of any point you make in the future because of the absolute insane judgement shown here.

Trump is too busy tweeting at 3am and trying to pick petty fights with his own party to try to win an election.

This election has killed most of whatever legitimacy the right had. Now they are seen as out of touch people trying to hold society back while lining their pockets.

 

I didn't realize that was his full name. No wonder they shorten it to, "Jesus" nowadays. Ya learn something new every day.

On a more serious note, I don't think that's the right way to deal with the misled, the ignorant, the unlucky. I think compassion should be prioritized here, for many reasons. Partisan politics work in the U.S., in large part thanks to the tribalistic nature of the comment above (even if I do happen to agree with your sentiment).

We need more conversations, not less -- and it's not as if the motives for voting 'Trump' in this election will suddenly dissipate as soon as he loses. Heck, not all of Trump's ideas are bad anyway. I think we ignore the vocal minority at our own peril. There are tonne of grievances that we need to rank and merit as appropriate. We can only do that through a civil dialogue with our opposition.

 

You're absolutely right. You have three main groups.

1) The protest vote - You have a large group of people that are voting for Trump purely out of protest. I can respect, although I disagree, with this position.

2) People who are trying to use some logic - Some people are using logic, which I disagree with, but I can respect their views and I do understand how they arrived.

3) Admittedly, this is a larger portion than I am comfortable with - You have the insane ones, ones who have claimed Obama to be a Muslim the last 8 years, trying to delegitimize a duly elected president. These people meekly threat of armed resistance if Trump loses, they believe in wild conspiracy theories (Like Obama is trying to convert America to islam and is in the Muslim brotherhood) - These are the people that anger me the most and are overall the biggest threat. Recent Trump rally attendees have taken to shouting "Lügenpresse" at the press. This means "lying press" and is recently most associated with the sentiment and behavior of people during the rise of Nazi Germany.

In all honestly, the third group needs to be wiped out through some natural selection event, because I believe these people truly hold back our species.

As a disclaimer: I do not think KlutchDecals is in the 3rd group. I've talked to him about politics quite a bit before and I respect how he's arrived as his decision - Although I vehemently disagree, because Trump is a spray on tan gorilla in a mansuit. This is a man who has outright said freedom of press should have limitations, outright called for an investigation and jail for his political opponent and obviously has no clear understanding of the constitution saying Clinton should not be allowed to run


When I get time tonight, I'll continue to post links to videos of utterly batshite things Trump has said that shows he not only is unqualified for President, but that he might actually be mentally retarded.

 

Denien, let me level with for a second if I may. Though I think there's a good chance this might appear legitimately crazy.

Do you believe in Free-Will? Have you given it much consideration?

P.s. Pretty sure Trump's IQ is relatively high. It's just that he has a superiority complex, is grossly ignorant or many issues and likely has 'Narcissistic Personality Disorder'.

 

A part of me wants to believe that he has said so many outrageous things on purpose to stir things up and be a populist. He hired a team to advise him on just what to say to get the votes needed to win the nomination. He said Caitlin Jenner could walk into the trump tower and use whichever bathroom right before the new York primary. He gained media attention with his Mexico comments and managed to make it to the top of the polls simply because the media was paying attention to him. No matter how messed up, it was the media that made him what he is today. If they would just shut up about him, we probably wouldn't have trump as the nominee. I also have a hard time believing that he wasn't careful how he handled the fight with megyn kelly. arguing with someone from the largest conservative news outlet in the US? Brilliant.