Gay Rights

I've posted this too many times to want to get back into this. I'll make this short and to the point.

It shows up in an MRI scan and has been shown to work in a similar way as left handedness. It's caused by epigenetics, which in a literal term means "above genes". Once again, it's similar to how left handedness works. In fact, homosexuals are found to be more likely to be left handed.

The top psychiatric institutions in the United States advise that people do not try to change it, as many people who try end up suicidal or depressed. Several of the few people who actually claimed they "changed" their sexual orientation were found to lie or came out of the closet again. It's an innate instinct that is beyond any control that an individual possesses.

There is no choice in sexual orientation. You are who you are. We have observable proof that sexual orientation is wired into our brains. God may have given us choice, but sexual orientation was not one of them.



On a Christian point of view, even the Bible disagrees with you.

Jesus even acknowledged that not all men are born to reproduce. "Eunuchs" are men not capable of being with women. Homosexuals at the time of the Bible were considered to be eunuchs. Jesus described eunuchs to be born from the womb and/or by choice (if you look back to my first few paragraphs, you'd see this is a case of being born a eunuch). More information from this website. Too lazy to explain it more. http://www.homosexualeunuchsandthebible.com/


And... I'm gone from this debate for now! Good night.

 

When God made the heavens and the earth and man kind he gave everyone a choice to be what they want to be.

 

Then he sucks at making that come true, because I want to be a really really good baseball player.

 

Dat_Coffee I don't hate gay people I'm just against people being gay

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2015, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2015 ---

Ranger its not in your doing its in Gods Doing.

 

You're expressing your love for gay people in a way that includes lowering their quality of life.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2015 ---

So God doesn't want me to play baseball for a living. Wow, some omnibenevolent being he is.

 

On the basis that the person was using bait 'n' switches, dismissals, etc. Sure? It depends why though.

I can't be 100% certain, but am I about to straw-manned yet again?

I objected to you telling someone else not to engage based on reasoning you gave. The why. Because you said they were beyond reason, and explicitly stated that I don't think there's anyone on this forum that is beyond reason. Most of them are kids ffs.

Let's put it this way. Imagine a continuum of "good reasons to disengage" and "bad reasons to disengage". From... 'All they do is spew insults 24/7' to 'they said a naughty word'.

Now, I draw a line somewhere between the two. (obviously) And I think that, 'I think they're beyond reason' is typically a bad reason. On the basis that I think most people are. Though it depends on the person. It could be a good reason! It all depends on the individual. But given most of the people here are kids, and the fact they have access to the internet too? I would have thought most could be reasoned with.

We cool on that? Please say I've made that clear enough. Because if I get straw-manned again you're gunna spoil my cup o' tea. And you don't want to spoil a British man's cup o' tea. No sir. No you don't.

 

Wow dude you British

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015, Original Post Date: Aug 24, 2015 ---

I heard you british people steal people sugar and milk.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015 ---

when you have tea time at someones house

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015 ---

I love everyone with Gods love.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015 ---

With Gods kind of love

 

you mormons are annoying.

 

When it says men it means women to, And it means that men and women will reproduce with each other.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015, Original Post Date: Aug 24, 2015 ---

oh annoying like your signature.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015 ---

That still doesn't mean you should be gay.

 

I personally think that anyone can be whatever they want to be. They can be gay, straight, bisexual, pansexual, transexual or anything else I haven't included if they really feel like that is what they are. Nothing wrong with anything. =)

 

Thats true, but it's not what God intended them to turn out to be.

 

great comeback.

 

Well good night guys we can talk about this tomorrow.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015, Original Post Date: Aug 24, 2015 ---

lol thanks

 

You should look up what that means, but no.

The person in question, Miro, had already shown he was beyond the type of reasoning Dat_coffee uses. Whether he was beyond all reason is uncertain. Miro is 17, and therefore hardly a kid. Certainly old enough to have already been exposed to the arguments Dat_coffe posed. He has already made his choice, and I don't think anything we can say will make him give up religion. He must think about the evidence, and make the decision on his own. Therefore, I wanted to save Dat_coffee the trouble of debating with him. I put a hell of a lot of work into getting you to this point, please don't make it all worthless .

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015, Original Post Date: Aug 24, 2015 ---

Ok, in one, cohesive, complete post, can you list all the reasons you think people shouldn't be gay?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015 ---

He's only 12...

 

Misrepresenting my position, refuting this 'straw-man' that you have created, as to claim that you have refuted my actual position.

Which is why I said it was dependent on the individual. I explicitly stated this.

Cool conjecture brah.

What's the support for this? Because we have stacks of evidence, of Theists deconverting after being consistently challenged on their beliefs. And, the younger one is, the easier it is to 'reach' them (usually).

I even gave an example of this earlier. What if someone had given up on Megan Phelps-Roper? (Grand-daughter of extremist Christian Fred Phelps, and associate of the Westboro Baptist Church) One could easily have claimed the same about Megan as you have about Miro. You do not have a solid basis to conclude that they are beyond reason. The same goes for Matt Dillahunty, and heck, look at all the good work he's doing in the Atheist community. At one point, he was studying to be a minister. Now, giving talks worldwide and debating religious apologists every few months or so.

And I don't want to alieniate people that we're supposed to be trying to reach, when they could still be reached.

 

Because no-one ever asks for it. If he disagrees, and does not think that there are many Atheists that were previously Christians, then he'd say so. Ask me to present evidence. But it was a fairly benign claim, one that should be easily agreed upon. I doubt he'll even contest that "a lot of Christians have deconverted to Atheism". I also gave two extreme examples of deconversions from people that are the hardest to reach, which further supports my claim that people in this thread are reachable.

 

Before we even get into this, do you want to go on record and claim that there havn't been many deconversions from Christianity to Atheism?

My example wasn't the 'anecdotal' fallacy. He claimed that Miro was beyond reason. I cited people that we would think were even further beyond reason that Miro, that have actually been convinced and reasoned with. Therefore, it stands to reason, that Miro is not beyond reason.

Reason reason reason reason.

 

Not if it's a benign claim. If they already accept my claim, I do not need to prove it, do I? Since the claim was incredibly generous, I didn't think I needed to provide sources.

I ask again, do you want to go on record and say that you don't think there are many Christians that deconvert to Atheism? Because if you accept this, you don't need evidence from me to back up that claim, do you?

 

Like I said in my early posts, God gave everybody a choice to be what they want to be when they came in to this world. When you turn 18 you can do whatever you want, But it was not in Gods image for people to turn out to be gay. In the garden of eden there was adam and eve, not adam and steve. And there was a tree of knowledge and a tree of life, and a satan tempted eve to take a bite of the apple that grew on the tree, and she went to adam and adam took a bite as well. And thats when sin came in to the world. And they felt shame so they hid from God, But God sees everything. And adam and eve were ashamed of there nakedness and covered themselves with leaves.

 

The evidence I have is him remaining fixed on his position after the arguments. You can only do so much over the internet. If you feel differently, feel free to go try and convince him, but don't tell me not to try and save someone else the trouble.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015, Original Post Date: Aug 24, 2015 ---

Ok. Do you have any factual evidence, or just spiritual?