Gay Rights

Why should their rights triumph over others'? Why should I be able deny people based on their sexuality?

How is it taking his rights away?- And onto that, then how is the other partys' rights not taken away?

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

"prohibiting the free exercise thereof". A right guaranteed to the priest by the Constitution of the United States, says that he has the right to exercise his religious beliefs freely. It stops being free when he is forced by the government to preform ceremonies.

 

That still shouldn't give them the right to impede on others' rights.

 

No, it doesn't. It gives them the right to practice their religion as they see fit. If they don't see fit to marry gays, then they don't have to.

The GOVERNMENT has to recognize gay couples as married couples, but the Church doesn't.

 

government is like half run by churches and businesses.

 

no... Government is run by elected officials, and bureaucrats appointed by those officials.

 

Hear me once again. Marriage licenses are given by the state, not by the church. A priest is not the one who marries you in the state. You still have every right to go and get yourself a marriage license. Nothing a priest can do will stop that. They just shouldn't be forced to conduct a religious ceremony that they don't agree with.

 

Their right doesn't triumph over other's. It just stands as it is.

 

EVERYONE AGREE WITH THIS

 

Actually TNT doesn't.

 

Apparently... Dontcha hate it when people don't accept facts?

 

Then what's the point of having the church in all of it? Ok-So have them be as whimsical or whatever as they want for what they bless- Why are they being used as a reason to try to deny Gay Rights?

And on another topic-Why do people feel the moral need to make it all religious when the religion part doesn't matter. Is it not just a showing of Church Power?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 1, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 1, 2015 ---

Learn to like fish better.

 

The Church isn't in it, not really. People have certain religions, certain religions are against gay practices, people take that to mean that it means they shouldn't be able to marry.
It's not a showing of 'Church Power'.

 

The showing of Church Power is shown whenever people use things from Religion to decide on things. Quoting from the Bible etc to trample on others' rights is Church Power. It's the same kind of thing with the Abortion issue, people use Religious grounds to deny others' their rights... While it may be a different topic, the point still stands. (Also Pastors etc using Religious reasons to try to influence the Government is what I'd call "Church Power."

This is not on the topic of Priests rights to deny, mmk, fine. Let them do as they wish, but they still try to influence the state based on their religion,

 

Well, that's not fair to say then, because per my religion, I don't murder, steal, cheat, lie, hate, etc. All decisions are based on belief. Religions unify people under one set of beliefs - normally, those are already preset by the person (and they always have the power to change religion). The church has influence, but it's up to individuals, not the church, to determine laws.
Religion is a part of life, a part of people, and a part of beliefs/opinions. That's not going to change, but nor is it the Church's fault. A lot of those people would believe the same thing either way.

Edit: btw, thank you for finally giving me the chance to debate with you

 

You're not being very coherent. Let me lay out the facts, and then you can restate your argument.

Facts:
1. Marriage as far as the state is concerned, and marriage as far as the Church is concerned, are different.
2. Gay people can be considered married by the state.
3. The Church is not part of the government.
4. Priests are protected under the first amendment.
5. Gay people, in choosing to publicly show gay tendencies, have alienated most of the church, including devout Christians.
6. If you are married in the eyes of the Church, it holds nothing with the state.
7. Marriage licences are all that matter to the state.
8. Gays can obtain marriage licenses.
9. Gays are not guaranteed the right to be married by a priest, as they have willingly alienated the religious body that would have preformed the ceremony.
10. If you are married in the eyes of the State, it holds nothing with the Church.
11. All legal rights that are secured by marriage are secured with a marriage license, not being married by the church.

I don't understand how you can ignore these facts, and continue this debate. Please reformulate your argument, taking these things into account, and see what it looks like.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2015 ---

If I don't believe in religion, does that mean I can't make decisions? I like to think I can...

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2015 ---

People use religion to argue against abortion, and the fact that you are killing a human. I'm personally against abortion, but I also feel that I, being a guy, can't tell a pregnant woman what she can and can't do.

 

I'll just put this here...

 

Obviously not, you are being controlled by the Martians! I know your secrets >: D

Seriously though, it's the same concept. Religion or not, you do not form your own moral code. You weren't born instinctively with a moral code - perhaps root guidelines (such as not murdering), but still an unformed uniform code. Your ideas of right and wrong are based in your environment. For example, in Nazi Germany, many Hitler youth believed in what they were doing and that it was right, because that's what they were taught.

What I meant by

was that all decisions are based on what you believe in (namely, your morals, what you believe to be right or wrong). Religions, having their own moral code, unify a group of people under the same one, if that makes sense. It's just grouping people with the same beliefs.

 

It isn't anyone's right to get married by a priest. It is everyone's right to get married, but if a priest refuses to preform homosexual marriages, that is fine. The couple can still be oficially married without a priest, and most gays aren't religious anyways.

 

Ahh