Donald Trump

So you're arguing against his acceptance of the way things are, and encouraging him to rail needlessly against the currents of fate? If something happens to me, I just make the best of it. That's really all you can do, and it's the most productive thing you can do. Just accept it, and instead of wasting your energy complaining about it, deal with the situation.

Is this a compliment or an ad hominem? I really can't decide...

Because without them, a lot of people (well some) wouldn't be able to go to college. In the end, it's for all the same reason as a normal loan or a mortgage.

I'm assuming you're talking about the price of college and not the loan. And because that's how capitalism works. And since I know you will use this as an opportunity to argue for socialism, I will address that. To be explicit, well, capitalist societies tend to be more productive. Now, I'm having trouble finding a reliable source for this, due to the polarized nature of the topic, so I'll walk you through my thought process before I go look some more. Page 20 of my tenth search, here I come!

In capitalist societies, it is possible to attain great wealth, and you get to keep the money you earn (at least, most of it. Taxes are a necessary evil, after all.) It was shown in early American colonies that those where the family produced food for themselves, rather than a communal stockpile succeeded, and the others failed. There was less incentive to work, and so the colonists starved. I cut the most relevant passage from here: https://mises.org/library/great-thanksgiving-hoax-1
This "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" was an early form of socialism, and it is why the Pilgrims were starving. Bradford writes that "young men that were most able and fit for labor and service" complained about being forced to "spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children." Also, "the strong, or man of parts, had no more in division of victuals and clothes, than he that was weak." So the young and strong refused to work and the total amount of food produced was never adequate.

To rectify this situation, in 1623 Bradford abolished socialism. He gave each household a parcel of land and told them they could keep what they produced, or trade it away as they saw fit. In other words, he replaced socialism with a free market, and that was the end of the famines.

And I know the word hoax in the URL seems dubious, but it refers not to a conspiracy theory, but to the widely known story of the 'first thanksgiving', and how said thanksgiving wasn't all that great.

Anyway, so this backs up my own person perspective, that I'd rather clean in my room than the Kitchen or pantry, because it benefits me most. I still have to clean the rest of the house though, so maybe not the best analogy, but you probably get my point .

Do you deny that it is life? Btw, most Californians wouldn't use brah like that.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2015 ---

You think we're good and smart, but you don't think there might be something to our point of view? I've already gone down the road of socialism (in thought) and I've seen where it leads. I don't like it. It, in essence, takes your deviation from average and smooths it out among the populace. Sure, failures don't fail as hard, but brilliant people don't shine as much. And in the end, charities are who take care of the failures.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2015 ---

I feel like my post ended poorly; let me tack on some words. "Charities are who take care of the failures (In a capitalist society) versus everybody being forced to take care of them in a socialist environment.

 

Student loans are a good idea because they allow students to get a service they otherwise can't pay for. Do you argue against the mortgage that keeps you in your mother's basement? Do you think the government should pay for mortgages too?

If you want to go to college you need to pay its that simple. When someone receives something that wasn't paid for in full they must have gotten the service via a loan. When you take a loan out you need to pay it back. Do you understand now? I thought you were better than this but of course you probably just want government handouts.

Maybe if you had a job that paid $100,000+ and you had to work hard in school to achieve it, only then you would get the fact people don't want 30+% of their salary going to leeches that debate on Minecraft forums more than they work.

I don't understand what you mean by "why they shouldn't be reduced in price".... College is a business in a free market and can set whatever prices they want. As long as the demand is there and there still is... they will continue to charge whatever.

 

Yo you go to UF? I'm a freshmen there :3

 

How old are you?

I thought that I remembered you being too young to currently be in college, but I might be mistaken.

 

He is a successful person with what he does, as we all know he's a really rich guy, however his methods, a lot of people don't agree with. I don't think he would be a good president.

 

With 37 days until the Iowa Caucus, Trump holds the largest 'Pre-Voting' lead of any GOP candidate since 2000.


2008 GOP Nomination: +17.5 Giuliani > McCain [~48 weeks til voting begins]

2012 GOP Nomination: +15.1 Romney > McCain [~31 weeks til voting begins]

2016 GOP Nomination: +18.7 Trump > Cruz [~5 weeks til voting begins]

 

18......
I'm majoring in pre-physics/astrophysics

I like to joke around sometimes in /all chat when I'm bored on meep (which is like all the time lol)

 

Huh, okay; I guess I was mistaken then.

It wasn't because you joke around in chat (I'm rarely ever in-game anyway). I thought I remembered you saying that you were too young to currently be eighteen in a staff application in the past, but that was a long time ago, so I'm sure I just remembered it incorrectly.

But anyway, astrophysics/physics, sweet.

 

Ikr. Education is an extremely valuable commodity. It therefore follows that something with that much demand is pricey. However, as more people graduate with life-crippling amounts of debt (if they didn't get a job during their time in college), more newbs will think twice about going to expensive universities. This leaves those colleges two options: increase prices to increase cash flow, which is starting a vicious circle that will result in the destruction of the college, or lower prices to attract more people.

 

I've seen many videos of the man. This is one that I thought funny.

 

Just accepting things because it's "how they are" can be a very troubling viewpoint.

Hypothetically, if you went back in time to the early 1900s, would you tell women to just accept not having the right to vote and black people to just accept racial segregation because "it's the way things are"?

Productive change can never happen if nobody is willing to work against changing "the way things are."

 

We must cover the forums in this picture. "noodle farm"

 

Bernie=Rip America.

 

Yes, but there's a difference between something that can be changed and something that can't. If you were to make it so that you didn't go to prison for breaking the law, chaos would ensue. Therefore, we can't change that, so why complain about it?

 

Of course it's pointless to argue with something that can't be changed; however, the topic was on student loans/paying for college, which is something that can be changed. Sure, you can have very valid reasons for why you think it shouldn't be changed, but it's not something that can't be changed.

 

Yes. That can't be changed if we don't convert to a socialist society. I did give an example of how socialist societies fail whilst capitalist ones thrive, and nobody responded to it, so I can only guess you guys are taking the position of: "It feels unfair, so I don't like it." instead of the position: "Socialism is actually superior in function to capitalism.".

In other words, just deal with it. It's the price you pay for living in a capitalistic society (more productive than a socialist society). IF you still want to live somewhere socialist, move to Northern Europe.

 

No, I have not taken that position, or any position, for that matter. I've made no claims on if I think education should be free. All I've said is that you shouldn't refrain from opposing something just because "it's the way things are."

But your argument is that we'd need a socialist society to have free education and that a socialist society is less productive and beneficial than a capitalist one; that's a valid argument.

My point was just that paying for education shouldn't just be accepted without any opposition for no other reason than it being "the way things are."

 

You're right. Paying for education (especially a higher education) is a side affect of living in a capitalist society, and if you demonstrate that you cannot reasonable replace the capitalist way with another, then your only recourse is to accept needing to pay "because that's life".

Thanks.

I agree.

 

I think we're pretty much on the same page here now. It would still be better not to simply say that you're accepting it "because that's life" though. It would be better and more clear if you said something like "It's a necessary part of living in a capitalist society, so as long as you want to live in one, you have to accept that as part of your life."