Abortion

1. You take a pill an hour or two late that effect can last until your next menstrual cycle depending on how sensitive it is, for mine its like a week, lol
2. Cant always know
3. No birth control is 100% effective unless you dont have sex, while that is valid, have you ever had sex? Sex is fun
Let me know when you change your mind cause itll only be a few years before you hit puberty
4. See above point

Plus idk who told you that was impossible but dad has a 80k a year job and my like 20k job, but due to medical bs with my help we are living paycheck to paycheck, that is WITH dad selling... illegals, and I couldnt move out if I wanted to unless I has like $3 more an hour at least, and I would have to no longer be able to buy my meds or food for my dog.

Dont go talking on the impossibility because for some people, like even myself, it would be impossible to raise a kid without a crapton of financial help, and I dont want to be in debt for 20 years because I had to take out a stupid loan because I can't afford medical bills throughout a pregnancy, through the birth, much less actually caring for the child for however long. This is how it would effect my life long term physically, not even going into emotionally with the baby and my body changes and how I change as a bloody human being. You are only thinking of the potential life form and not even thinking about the people that would be forced to change.
What IF it was you, though? Or your sister or whoever? You're still gonna pull this crap?

Would you not want less sad kids put into the system, and more taken out?
It is a crappy move and its a crappy situation for a lot of people, I 100% agree with you on how it is not favorable, should not be one of the first options involved, and isn't exactly a nice thing to be doing to yourself, or morally in general.

But I also respect that people should have options. Not everyone is going to think this stuff through. I would rather have a kid raised by an adult and less kids in the system, vs trashy 16 year old tossing her kid in the dumpster or stabbing herself with a coat hanger because she's scared and can't get the help she needs, because parents can be just as awful in the situation as the preggo person.

We need to think about the bigger picture before we look at the smaller minorities.

 

Pro birth, not pro life c':

 

You can put it up for adoption if you honestly don't think you can raise a child, and it is your responsibility to accept the consequences of your actions. If you have sex, there is a risk of getting pregnant. Even if you try to minimize that risk, you are still taking the risks, and you are irresponsible if you chose to have sex and cannot deal with the potential consequences.

 

It takes two people to conceive a child, and therefore both parents are responsible.

 

The issue I'm having is the equating a situation where a person may or may not have a child to a situation where a woman is pregnant and in modern developed countries, there is over a 90% chance that what pops out at the end of that term, is a human being.

It's not really a grey area and it's really pretty simple.

A woman and man hook up, they may or may not have sex, having a baby. 50% likelyhood

A woman is pregnant >90% likelyhood

One is a vehicle set in motion

The other is the vehicle doesn't exist

They aren't the same things and there is no use trying to shoehorn them together.

 

Your right, lets kill em all.

Oh god you are thick. This sentence is purely hyperbole at this point, I could care less about what you do with your body, I care about you killing the person inside that isn't a part of your body, its a separate being growing inside you, you do not have empirical moral superiority over a person just because they are growing inside you.

you're right, it sucks that biology is unequal, its a sad fact. You can get child support or something, but yes, we are biologically different. Its a sad fact, none of it justifies stopping a baby from living.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2017 ---

She had a choice to engage in risky sex.
She took a risk
She deals with consequences.

 

no, no not at all, that's horrifying.

Fix state run orphanages. Romania was also a slightly different situation.

Sex is fun, sex is a risk, if you engage in sex, you take that risk, if you are taking the risk, you need to be ready to deal with potential consequences.


Its not that hard is it.

I really don't think progress can be made on this debate because its gotten down to two separate "truths". We are divided on when life begins, and I doubt we could come to any agreement. I'll say that while trumpo has his faults, his court overturning roe v wade will be a highlight of his presidency.

 

Killing a person is also hyperbole because the entity inside a female isn't a human or much of an organism yet, it's more akin to a parasite needing a host body to survive. I have very strong personal opinions about abortion and would never consider it for my children, however, to say that a fetus is a person at this stage is a non-starter.

I could get behind the argument that abortion is preventing what would almost certainly become a person from entering in the world, but not that it's killing a human, it isn't.

It's rare a Supreme Court revisits it's own ruling, unless new/changed evidence/circumstance happens, additionally it's rare for the Supreme Court to overrule a state's supreme court.

 

@Muunkee
1.) don't forget to take your pills.
2.) find out
3.)I am 18 ya know? Puberty started along time ago, not sure if you were trying to use it as an insult or not idk.
4.) Its not pro-birth you moron, its certainly pro-life. I would love to assist children without a home and I do many charities to help with that.

For the rest of you. Idk how else to say it? When mommy and daddy "have fun" according to @Muunkee they sometimes get a special prize if they win the game! Sometimes that prize isn't the prize you had hoped for but now you get to either, keep the prize, love it, nurture it, give it love or you can give it to someone else to nurture it, love it, care for it, etc. Besides killing it.

@Deinen im glad abortion is not something you would personally pick to do. However, when we say "human" we are not meaning skin, bones etc etc etc but a forming human. It is turning into a child, it is growing. It's a stage of life.

Fetus -> baby -> new born baby -> toddler -> child -> teen -> young adult -> adult -> elder

You see they are all a person. They all grow into the next stage of a human life. You can't become an elder without being a teenager first. You can't become a toddler without becoming baby first. You can't become a baby without becoming a fetus first.

 

Then you're misrepresenting your argument in order to score a victory, because you're not killing a person or a human in anyway, shape or form. A fetus at this stage has no independent viability to survive or demonstrate any of the traits a person, or human, demonstrate.

I already have my view of abortion that will not be swayed: It's preventing what would be a person coming into this world. While it's not a choice I would ever make with my children, but I do not approve of legislation prohibiting this behavior because of a myriad of reasons.

 

The same reply goes to you, @Blue_marlin98:

My point was that there is enough land space. If we can fit people in Texas, lets say, then we can have enough space for buildings+food+necessities in, lets say, a land space 3 times that today.

I get your point about natural resources but defending abortion by saying that we don't have the resources for everyone in the future is a bit silly. Your argument shouldn't be more accessible abortions, it should be more abstinence in people to prevent these pregnancies from occurring in the first place.

It's like if a pool of running water is spilling, and instead of turing off the water, you throw out water with a ton of buckets.

It is, but not in the same way that your hand is yours, and your stomache is yours, unfortunately. Babies in the womb have: Their own blood type, heart, and abnormalities that get corrected on their own.

You're in a paradox here. If the woman should (and does) have rights over her body, what about the kid inside her body? Is it excluded from this rule? What makes this rule different from when the moment the baby is alive, when it is developing (fetus) or when it is a "clump of cells?"

 

I respect your opinion. I would like to sway your opinion but if I can't do that, it's pointless for me to really try to sway your opinion. That being said, can you please explain to me the "myraid" of reasonings you have.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2017 ---

@sicklynerd I understand what you are saying with Texas. I saw the same study. I am agreeing with you on it however we would not be able to fit all of our population into Texas and live a life like we Americans, Canadians and other countries that live freely like the U.S does. We would be more independent and wouldn't have much of the fun things in life like the movies, stores, etc and would almost need to live the life like we did 100 years ago. So even though we all could live in Texas is true and saying that we don't have the resources is indeed silly. I wouldn't personally use it as an example. Even though I do agree with you, is all I was trying to say

 

1. Simply because I don't have enough education and understand about humanity to say with certainty when it's a clump'o'cells and a person.

2. People are going to have sex and unwanted children, you cannot stop that. The next best thing is to mitigate the consequences for society, which abortions do by not putting millions of children into the system the state pays for.

3. I'm forced to believe there is some credibility to the practice of abortion, considering infanticide has been a human action for thousands of years, not to mention nearly all species of animals on this planet also practice some form of infanticide.

4. As cold and callous as it sounds; aborting children with medical disabilities / diseases ultimately serves to remove those negatives from the gene pool, which makes us more robust as a species.

5. Laws preventing abortion will not stop abortion because a mother in this position already has to deal with consequences far more massive than legal/criminal. For a mass majority, aborting a child is a life-traumatic event that will stay/haunt them forever. It might be the best decision in their life, but they will continually regret that choice, because mothers instinctually and genetically are designed to hold an immeasurable love with their children, look at almost any species.

 

Look back at what I said relating to land size. I understand that Texas literally could not sustain us all because of said needed facilities.

Says who? Those who support the public system to teach kids from a young age that sex is OK if you feel like having it, and just to use contraceptives? Where is your evidence that people are going to have sex and unwanted children no matter what? What about abstinence?

Honey, there is no way to know, for sure, if a kid is going to have a disability. Huge flaw in your logic. When I was developing, I was intoxicated with mercury, because a thermometer had blown in food eaten by my mom, which was unknown until she had eaten it. The doctors told my mom that I would be born defective, and gave her the option to use some contraceptive method. However, when I was born, I had no defects and to this day am a perfectly normal kid who plans to pursue computer science. So much for becoming a "more robust species," right?

 

.....

Have you seen Africa? Apparently a human killing disease called AIDs isn't sufficient motivation to not have sex.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2017 ---

You know what a genetic test is...right?

 

This ill leave alone because I do agree with you. On top of the fact that there are more studies being done. Some studies now are showing the fetus has nerves and what not so idk.

Trust me, im a young adult/teenager if you will. At 18 I understand the sex drives and the natural wants for it. I understand Men and Women both need sex in their lives. It helps improve ones day, it makes them happier, etc etc it's something we almost need in our daily lives. But just because its "fun and we want it" doesn't mean the consequence should be killing that something that you yourself used to be.

If you are complaining about tax payers dollars going into taking care of America children then I have a solution.
Stop making prisons so nice (put some of the prison budget into helping the kids)
Stop supporting illegal aliens (that puts some of the budget into helping the kids)
Stop providing funds to sanctuary cities (that puts some of the budget into helping kids)
Stop providing government assistance to alcoholics/drug users/ pot smokers (that saves money for children)
I have many more places where we can get the budget for American Children btw, if you want more??

Comparing a human being to a dog is not relevant and is nothing alike.

This is my strongest issue and it actually hurt me a little to read this. Many children with disabilities are very smart. They are sometimes as smart as us. Look at Stephen Hawkings. Also, by having more people with disabilities it helps us find cures and ways to reverse the disability.

Sorry but I have 0 sympathy for mothers who put their lives in jeopardy trying to abort their child.

My aunts ex-step son got his wife pregnant. They said the boy had down syndrome, was 100% sure he had it. The doctors asked if they wanted to abort the child. As a good mom she declined and said I will love my child no matter what. That child is I believe 6 years old and has no disability. He is a happy healthy child.

Were not in Africa and live a completely different lifestyle.