Remove Purchasable Fly Notes

reggles44

Hello Meepers,

So this thread is specifically targeting the recent sale of fly notes but it also addresses a larger issue with the development of the economy. To start I would like to talk about some simple economics of supply and demand.

Now this graph is a simple representation of a supply demand graph and how they relate to create prices in an economy. Supply is driven by the amount of an item that a producer would want to sell at specific prices and demand is driven by the amount consumers would buy at specific prices. Where they meet is equilibrium price in the market. This price satisfies both demand and supply quantities and price which allows for increased trade of that specific item.

With the current setup of purchasing notes in spawn the graph changes, and not in a good way. While demand is unchanged supply suddenly has a set prices without the regard for demand. Meaning that demand (aka the player) no longer have any power to change prices in the economy by either reducing supply or increasing demand. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but it does start to remove an interesting aspect of the server which I believe most economy players have missed for a while.

That is to say, power. While many players work towards larger and larger balances players already with large balances have very little options to use that money. Currently there are a couple options that provide dismasl end game. Players can invest in spawners and build up a huge grinder to spawn in items which he will then sell for money to recuperate his loses on the initial investment. That player may also put a large potion of his money into a town so he can live and build in peace. Finally that player can make a huge collection of items where he will have some of the rarest head, blocks, eggs, and collectibles. These are all great options but they absolutely suck as any kind of end game economic playground. If player could freely put their money into the market to change prices or supply and start controlling different items it would allow for that end game power that an economic server needs.

Getting back to fly notes and other purchasable notes that have a set price now I think it is rather clear as to what aspect is being removed. When they were first created these notes were meant to be a new item which could be traded in a completely new market with completely new players who haven't already made a huge investment. However now that the prices are set there is no reason to trade them, why invest money into notes when the server will out compete you in price and supply every time. Therefor to help endgame trades and economy players we need a free market for specialty items.

At the same time having universal fly notes doesn't bring in any money but infact loses the server players as people don't have to vote to get them anymore. This whole ordeal has lost the notes value and lost the server daily voters.

TL;DR
The set prices of fly notes ruin large scale trading and don't bring any benefit to the server, therefor they should go.

Deinen

In conjunction/opposition - What if:

To distribute fly notes in some systematic way, would it be possible to use an NPC to send a player on a quests to some coordinates in wild. Within 1000 blocks of those coordinates perform some task, either kill X mobs, X type of mobs, collect X items, etc to return back to the quest-giver, and get a fly note of X hours.

Perhaps this could be a daily quest.

Muunkee

In conjunction/opposition - What if:
To distribute fly notes in some systematic way, would it be possible to use an NPC to send a player on a quests to some coordinates in wild. Within 1000 blocks of those coordinates perform some task, either kill X mobs, X type of mobs, collect X items, etc to return back to the quest-giver, and get a fly note of X hours.
Perhaps this could be a daily quest.
~ @Deinen

Okay this is awesome
It sucks for those who travel between worlds a lot though, because any note you use is disabled if you warp or DC or anything. Is there a way to fix this I wonder.
But yes. We need quest systems and that'd be super awesome.

_MacintoshWave_

-1
no one but ultimate will be able to fly, but now no one else can get ultimate. And since the chances of receiving a /fly note are minuscule, people should be allowed to pay for said /fly notes since they cannot easily be won.

Muunkee

no one but ultimate will be able to fly,
~ @_MacintoshWave_

Anyone can fly with these notes?

shains

supply and demand charts don't really work on an economy where money can be spawned in from no where and disappear to nothing

reggles44

supply and demand charts don't really work on an economy where money can be spawned in from no where and disappear to nothing
~ @shains

Money isn't what is in supply and demand its items. Yes they can be spawned in from nowhere but the chart isn't a set thing. It doesn't work once and set one price it is a variable representation of how prices change based on supply and demand of an item in relation to the value of that item in the market. So if you take a instance of the game and measure supply and demand to determine a price which doesn't change then yes the charts don't work. But every aspect of those charts are variable so it doesn't matter the amount of money or the amount of items the theory holds that an equilibrium price will be reached.

_Gimble_1.

@reggles44 Darnit, really wish you would have been my Introduction to Business teacher this semester... Good job and I agree, the fly notes shouldn't have a fixed price.

@Deinen I actually really love the sound of this, I like RPGs and having this little daily quest would be fun to complete.

reggles44

In conjunction/opposition - What if:
To distribute fly notes in some systematic way, would it be possible to use an NPC to send a player on a quests to some coordinates in wild. Within 1000 blocks of those coordinates perform some task, either kill X mobs, X type of mobs, collect X items, etc to return back to the quest-giver, and get a fly note of X hours.
Perhaps this could be a daily quest.
~ @Deinen

That is an excellent way to add supply since voting won't provide enough to nurture a diverse trade.

Jwarian

If player could freely put their money into the market to change prices or supply and start controlling different items it would allow for that end game power that an economic server needs.

~ @reggles44

This allows the 1% to control commodity prices, hoarding and manipulation of prices is worst for the new player. This is what we don't want.

Sorry but I think staff should be setting the prices, not the rich players. We cannot operate a free market economy when supply is unlimited. Or as shain and fuzzlr have said before, there is no use to a supply and demand curve in minecraft.

The only downside to people being able to fly more is it makes notes worth less.... Are you sure you aren't biased in this argument?
Seems to me the amount of players who will benefit from /fly notes being sold will FAR outnumber any upset meeper about their worth of their note collection going down.

Sorry but strong -1

reggles44

This allows the 1% to control commodity prices, hoarding and manipulation of prices is worst for the new player. This is what we don't want.
Sorry but I think staff should be setting the prices, not the rich players. We cannot operate a free market economy when supply is unlimited. Or as shain and fuzzlr have said before, there is no use to a supply and demand curve in minecraft.
The only downside to people being able to fly more is it makes notes worth less.... Are you sure you aren't biased in this argument?
Seems to me the amount of players who will benefit from /fly notes being sold will FAR outnumber any upset meeper about their worth of their note collection going down.
Sorry but strong -1
~ @Jwarian

What you are suggesting is not an economy it is a boring endgame for players. As for if a supply, demand curve relates to minecraft it absolutely does if you don't have set prices. The theory is that the demand and supply for items will come together to reach an equilibrium price which is true. As for the theory that minecraft has infinite items so you can't represent that in this manner is false. Minecraft does have unlimited items avaible to player but the supply demand curve theory only relates to items which are available for sale. So it doesn't count items which have been generated in the wild or the blocks used in a castle. It counts items sitting in chests, on the vshop, or in a chest shop which can be put up for sale in a second.

The way it should be viewed in that there is infinite potential for production and thus potential for infinite supply but by no means is that the reality. Players will not mine every block in wild nor will they be able to sell an infinite amount of items on vshop becuase of the limit. So in the end supply and demand theory do apply in a meepcraft enviorment.

What remains to be a problem with the theory of supply and demand as explain in the thread so far is that having a shop which spawns in items for a set prices removed any potential for there to be a supply demand curve and thus removes any real economy aspect from that item/sector.

In the end this thread isn't debating about if it is a good idea to have them for sale or not or if it should be a global perk. It is debating that there is the potential for more endgame for players with tons of money. And in turn increasing end game content is how the server gets players to stay and develop a larger community.

The only downside to people being able to fly more is it makes notes worth less.... Are you sure you aren't biased in this argument?
Seems to me the amount of players who will benefit from /fly notes being sold will FAR outnumber any upset meeper about their worth of their note collection going down.
~ @Jwarian

The value of fly note comes from the want and availability of a fly note which have both changed drastically. The number of players that wanted a fly note has gone up as legends no longer has the fly perk so they are looking to secure notes for themselves. At the same time however the availability of fly notes has plummeted because there is now a second infinite supply. So overall yes the value has gone down, maybe not in meeble value but rarity value.

In addition I'm not sure where you were going with the last part of that since the number of players who benefit and the number of upset players doesn't really relate to this topic.

Jwarian

I guess our differences lie in the fact that my endgame is towny, I've been in endgame mode for 3 years, there is no end to towny.

You could try making a town of your own and trying to foster a community if you are bored.

Another question though, you say selling /fly notes ruin "large scale" trading. Can you explain this further to me?

Deinen

I guess our differences lie in the fact that my endgame is towny, I've been in endgame mode for 3 years, there is no end to towny.
You could try making a town of your own and trying to foster a community if you are bored.
Another question though, you say /fly notes ruin "large scale" trading. Can you explain this further to me? Not in concept, in practice.
~ @Jwarian

You, like many others left for long periods of time, which leads me that the towny endgame is too limited to keep people attention. The player's is too small to create much of a community, which leads people to one thing in towny, building things over and over again.

What can you suggest that adds to the limited and linear endgame currently in existence?

Jwarian

You, like many others left for long periods of time, which leads me to the conclusion that the towny endgame is too limited to keep people attention.
~ @Deinen

To phrase it simply, I got hooked on GTAV, yep it happened to everyone, it wasn't because towny was boring, just not as good as the greatest artificial reality simulation man had ever seen at the time.
Second time I was soured by intra-staff-community interaction at the time, I'm sure you know that feeling, I quite simply didn't want to exist in the same room or server with people who I had strong negative opinions towards.
The lack of an /xr chat, or proper moderation of chat and harassment, or just flat out incongruent moderation among similar agents is what pushes people away. We, on several occasions have let the community sour, towny is the community, no one likes sour milk.
The fact that I have taken distended periods of time off from the server, (and by that we mean only logging on once every week or three...) only strengthens my beliefs on this matter. What I missed was the community, not the economy and I returned both times when I felt optimistic about the server's future and the state of its community.

The player's is too small to create much of a community.
~ @Deinen

You did Deinen, you had a good one and you did it almost alone. But you bit the apple.

What can you suggest that adds to the limited and linear endgame currently in existence?
~ @Deinen

What I really look forward to is more cyclical events and community doings, things like MeepOlympics for example, but shorter timeframe, more regular and done by staff or donors, we can crank out tons of tiny plugin ideas or minigames or serverwide competitions. Of course this is all nifty speak when there is no weight behind it.
I'm stuck with ideas on towny itself.... because nothing can be concrete until we know what it would be built on, modified current plugin?Based like creative?Can it even be done safely without damaging old towns history? IDK. But once again, I presume you would agree when I say waiting on a towny overhaul is the last thing any of us should be thinking about. Alas just discussing I guess.

Back to topic, I still don't understand why allowing players to /fly for an hour is a bad thing, for the community as a whole like I asked in my last post. Maybe raise the price to 100k and move the vote reward from .01 to 1%, but we owe it to our previous donors to have the ability to get their old perk back.
Albeit temporary and expensive. Its just what a proper company does when one of its products becomes faulty. It sets the stage for future donor confidence.

Jwarian

In conjunction/opposition - What if:
To distribute fly notes in some systematic way, would it be possible to use an NPC to send a player on a quests to some coordinates in wild. Within 1000 blocks of those coordinates perform some task, either kill X mobs, X type of mobs, collect X items, etc to return back to the quest-giver, and get a fly note of X hours.
Perhaps this could be a daily quest.
~ @Deinen

Never got to this, I love the idea of rewarding fly notes throughout the server and other notes of course. Clearly you have a lot of creativity behind the screen. Organize and propose man!

Marshy_88

The end game is reaching being of a bal of 100mil+, being staff at one point, and owning a large town, and still it doesn't end.

WeAreNumberUno

_MacintoshWave_

Anyone can fly with these notes?
~ @Muunkee

for 1 hour

reggles44

I want to clarify this idea a little bit becuase people don't seem to understand the direction I'm looking for. This is a short term solution to promote more trade for notes but it doesn't solve the long term problem of supply. In the long run there needs to be other source of fly notes that are not in competition with market prices.

Muunkee

I want to clarify this idea a little bit becuase people don't seem to understand the direction I'm looking for. This is a short term solution to promote more trade for notes but it doesn't solve the long term problem of supply. In the long run there needs to be other source of fly notes that are not in competition with market prices.
~ @reggles44

Winning them rarely in mini games, like 5% or lower? Or how about making them as a voting reward (this would change other voting notes too) more common?
Can we just make the fly note more expensive for now, like 100 or 150K so people can still buy them for rn but they're overpriced?