1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi there Guest! You should join our Minecraft server @ meepcraft.com
  3. We also have a Discord server that you can join @ https://discord.gg/B4shfCZjYx
  4. Purchase a rank upgrade and get it instantly in-game! Cookies Minecraft Discord Upgrade

New Shop System

Discussion in 'Completed' started by Skwisher, Jan 21, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Skwisher

    Skwisher Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    924
    Sorry in advance for the wall of text.

    So I was thinking about the current economy and different options Meepcraft has regarding how they can set up their current shop system. Each system has its own main detriment which causes most of the players against that system to hate it. These main detriments are:
    • Vshop - Players can easily undercut drastically reducing the values of items or someone can hoard a bunch of items in order to control a whole item market
    • Meepshop - An infinite amount of money can be added to the server
    • Chestshop - Huge monopolisation such as Diana's shop
    In order to solve this 3 way war between the shop systems within the server, I have attempted to come up with a new system which uses the best aspects of each shop to overcome their individual flaws. What I have come up with is a bit hard to explain by typing, so bear with me:

    So first of all, there would be a "thing" where you can store items you want to sell or you have bought. Whilst this is open for modification, the current thing I am proposing is a sign with specific words written on it on the right lines (much like how you setup a current chest shop) and this would turn it into a shop. For example, if you were to write something like this:
    [​IMG]

    When you click done, it would turn into a shop that looks something like this:
    [​IMG]

    Now to stock the shop, you simple put the item into your hand slot or have it somewhere into your inventory and you right click the sign and the items would be stored into the sign. This would cause the sign to change to something like this (if I had a stack of diamonds in my hand and I were to right click the sign):
    [​IMG]

    Now to remove the sign all you have to do is left click the sign and the items will be removed from the sign.

    Note, everything I have just said above is open for change as this is just how the items will be stored in the shop world and isn't directly involved in my new shop system idea. Just having a dummy shop item makes explaining my actual idea a lot easier.

    So now for the shop system idea. Much like the meepshop, every item will have a set value which will increase the more items that are stored in the signs and will decrease as less items are stored in the signs (and I am talking about all sign shops across the entire server), so say there are 100 diamond signshops across the server each with a stack in them and then someone else makes a signshops and stores a stack in there, the overall price of diamonds would go down. On the other hand if someone was to remove some items or buy some items from the diamond signshop, the overall diamond price would go up.

    Now onto how to buy/sell the items. The command to buy/sell items would be much like the command used in the Vshop, for example /buy [amount] [item]. Now when this command is typed, the amount of items the person wanted would be split evenly between every signshop in the game and all the signshop owners would gain the same amount of money based on how many items were removed from their shop. For example if someone wanted 300 diamonds and there were 100 signshops selling diamonds, 3 diamonds would be removed from each signshop and given to the player buying the diamonds whilst the amount of money the player spent on the items will be split evenly between each player selling the diamonds so they all get their money's worth for selling the 3 diamonds. This works the same opposite way if a player sells the items, they get split evenly between the signshops and each signshop owner pays the player their respective amounts.

    Now it gets a bit confusing when an indivisible number of diamonds is bought or sold by a player from the signshops. So say there are again 100 diamond signshops, however a player only wants to buy one diamond. Then they get the diamond, and each signshop goes down by 0.01 diamonds. As the diamonds are not legitimate items, they are only stored in signs, this is still possible. Now if a player wants to remove their (in this case) diamonds from their chest and it isn't a whole number, than the item amount would round down to the nearest whole number and the player would get that amount. This I believe would be fine as the player could just wait until the amount of items in the signshop are close enough to a whole number to remove them without a large loss (and besides, you are only really losing like a fraction of a single item anyway).

    I think this method overcomes all of the current flaws in each respective shop system as:
    1. There is no monopolisation as everyone sells the same amount of items no matter what (unless their sop goes out of stock)
    2. There is no undercutting as there is always a set price that varies depending on how many of those items are in the "shop world"
    3. There is no infinite source of money as all the money is exchanged between players and no money is generated.
    4. It is also quite convenient and easy to teach to the new players.
    Once again, I'm going to say that this is just an idea and is open for inspection and improvement , especially the shop "thing" where the items are stored. If anyone managed to find a flaw in the system, just let me know and I'll try to patch it, otherwise I'm open to whatever feedback you have.
     
    Cherrykit and Toostenheimer like this.
  2. Grandblue

    Grandblue Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    434
    +/- Most people just want the V-Shop back.
     
    benster82 likes this.
  3. Skwisher

    Skwisher Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    924
    They only want the Vshop back because it is the shiniest of three turds. I believe this overcomes the flaws even within the /vhsop but it's still only an idea so any feedback is welcomed.
     
  4. Perryjay2

    Perryjay2 Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,364
    Likes Received:
    1,295
    I kinda like the sign/chestshop idea cus it is quite suttle n that.

    But, on the shop bases, I think, And a lot of people think, That we should just bring back VShop.
    It may overcome the flaws but it has flaws of its own:

    Surely not everyone can sell the same amount of stock because not everyone is going to buy 300 diamonds and there isnt going to be 100 shops happening to sell them for the same price. If someone was only gunna buy 2 diamonds. how donwe split it between All the shops?

    Unless im mistaken, the prices of based on the meepshop / bank idea? If so, I really dont think that is the way to go as we will end up with the same problem we had with meepshop: Lots of farms, reduce the price of items. With VShop players can decide how much they want the servers diamonds to be worth.

    We are also going to get this problem where nobody is buying items and only selling (The problem with ChestShops) and then everyone will get annoyed because they cant sell anything.

    So yea -1 for me.
     
    hardegat likes this.
  5. Jwarian

    Jwarian Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    2,505
    how about we just add add one line of text to the rules section on the website:

    Section 8 - Vshop Exploitation(i don't know the real section #)
    Re-listing the same item multiple times in one day in order to maintain monopolistic dominance of a "market" will result in forfeit of all items listed/related, repeat offenders will risk a tempban/extensive fines. (Will be judged on a case by case basis consisting of an inspection of the players' /cancel and /buy patterns)

    Problem solved, can we have vshop now!?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  6. Skwisher

    Skwisher Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    924
    Firstly thanks for the feedback, however I think you misinterpreted my suggestion a bit.

    The shops will sell them all for the same price as you cant make a price on the shops, there is already a set price which is dependant on how many items are in the "shop world". Also, I think you missed the part where I stated how an indivisible amount of items may be bought. Just read my initial post.
    The only reason this was bad as the huge farms could generate an unlimited source of money as the Meepshop generated money out of nowhere in return for the items. Additionally, having lots of farms will reduce the cost of items no matter what shop you use as they will be more abundant and easier to obtain. With Vshop people will just undercut the other players with their masses of farmed items until they lose value, however this I don't see this as a problem with either shop system as if they can be mass farmed, why should the items be valuable in the first place?
    This was only a problem cause there were so few chestshops that were advertised and thus used. If the selling of items is evenly spread out, the signs wont get backed up as easily. Also the signs could easily be given a large value so this problem wont occur.

    I know this might look like I am trying to shove my idea down your throat but I just want to show you how your flaws with my design can be fixed or overcome.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2015, Original Post Date: Jan 21, 2015 ---
    However it would be hard to quantise that rule and have an explicit line between not abuse and abuse. Besides people could still just put thousands of a single item in the vshop and only change the price once a day and still achieve monopolization.
     
  7. hardegat

    hardegat Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    282
    Interesting idea and with some more spitballing it might become something more feasable. In the current state of your suggestion there would really be no incentive of setting up a shop by splitting sales across the server. I also have to agree with what Perryjay2 said above. Having another system similar to MeepShop would just bottom prices out again.

    Or just create a timer where you can only update your prices or list each item once a day or whatever.

    THIS THIS THIS x gazillion
     
  8. Jwarian

    Jwarian Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    2,505
    no one cares if pork/beef/leather/wool/bones/bacon are a dollar or .99 or .98 eventually someone buys them back to 1$
    donor perks make these items worthless, thats the call staff made on donor perks YEARS AGO

    the real items that provided income to citizens always held their ground

    (diamonds/redstone/iron/lapis/emerald/log/plank/torch/wheat/stone/grass/glass/quartz/any crafted item)

    this whole monopoly argument makes no sense when applied to vshop, if somone wants to control iron, he has to buy all the citizen's iron first, coupled with a ONE line amendment to the rules stating how he can't /cancel X number of times in Y hours, this whole exploitation-by-monopolization-imaginary-dragon gets slayed.

    do any of you know how much iron hornemans had to buy to take the price up to 80?

    someone go talk to mrhollywoot about diamonds or ask hornemans where his 60 mil went when he tried to control diamond
    (yes i know onis bought him out for like some stupid number of dozens of millions a few months later, but initially he LOST 90% OF HIS MONEY) I was there, he quit for like a month. This isn't an issue! There will be no vshop apocalypse!

    Finally, undercutting is also called "pricing to sell", this isn't a street corner, we should naturally be allowed to compete.

    we have gotten to the point where we just blow hot air into balloons and then call them monsters.
    #bringbackvshop2k15
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    Deljikho, Toostenheimer and hardegat like this.
  9. hardegat

    hardegat Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    282
    ^
    True story

    #bringbackVshop2k15

     
  10. GroovyGrevous

    GroovyGrevous Break hearts not blocks

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,613
    Likes Received:
    15,599
    bring back the v-shop...
     
  11. Skwisher

    Skwisher Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    924
    Seriously, this isn't a Vshop thread. I'm not against the Vshop, I'd be happy if it were implemented because I think it is way better than the current system. However, can we avoid just spamming this thread with "bring back the vshop" because this has no valid input to the suggestion at hand. I just think that this shop improves on the flaws found within vshop, the biggest one being undercutting. I just want some feedback on the suggestion and for this thread to not turn into a spam war.
     
    Toostenheimer and GroovyGrevous like this.
  12. Cherrykit

    Cherrykit Being myself

    Offline
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    3,787
    I like the suggestion, however I think that it is a little too complicated. I think it would be better if there was only one sign for each item and you can sell and buy to this sign, but only buy if there are enough items in the sign.
     
    SpongeyStar and LadyCassandra like this.
  13. Hornemans

    Hornemans God of Meebles

    Offline
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    945

    Very True, the PERKS that are messing up the ECONOMY such as /fix, /heal, /feed but also its SPAWNERS that are severely killing specifically the: Iron, Diamond, Wool, beef, pork, leather, coal, bone, arrow, wheat, carrot, blaze rod, rotten flesh, ender pearl, and everything dropped from a mob!
    Exactly, Those items still should make new players money in the /warp shop but the whole process is a pain in the butt with the click, buy/sell enter, number enter, ERROR msg, Count your EXACT number of items, click again, sell again, enter number again, $$$$$$. The old signs where you just clicked to buy and sell where MUCH BETTER!
    Im usually all about the rules but in this cause that is not the right answer. (IF THE VSHOP was put back) a simple change that would not allow you to change the price more than 1 time a day would be the better solution and to allow a MAX of only say 20k of any one item per person. If I wanted to buy 1,000,000 bones I could not be able to STORE them on VSHOP I should have to put the other 980,000 in a chest or let clear lag take them.
    I think the most iron I had at one point what 70 double chests which was about 250k which I usually only ever had 50k on the VSHOP!
    Yes, I bought 70 million total of diamonds, which ended up being about 115k total (about 3 and ½ double chest of diamond blocks) which I later “secretly” sold 3 chests of diamond blocks back to ONIS for 40 million. Onis later then flooded the marking and then “ask Mr. Hollywoot” for the rest of the story.
    I agree, and if I play 24 hours a day and want to consistently change my price to the lowest (every 2 mins) I sould be allowd to cause im online that much. I know this is opposite of what I just suggested a couple quotes up but im bring up a different point of view this time. The way to FIX this problem could also only allow you to change your price a % of the previous price “meaning” if I place Iron for 80 meebles and someone sell them for 79.99 meebles that I would NOT be able to change it to 79.98 but I would have to change it say 10% difference to, 72 meebles instead. Note: we would have to figure a way so people just can’t change it from 80 to 100 (more than 10%) then instantly back down to 79.98 (also more than 10% difference from 100).
    Exactly, a lot of people are “blowing” this “hot air” without knowing the facts or how things work. The monsters are only figments of people “imaginations”.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
  14. Muunkee

    Muunkee Legendary art supply hoarder

    Offline
    Messages:
    11,620
    Likes Received:
    21,031
    This is like the whole point of the vshop
    To be the lowest market, yet the highest price
    We can't take that away, maybe limit it though.
     
  15. Deljikho

    Deljikho Lazy Swami

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,341
    Likes Received:
    4,121
    I like the idea Skwisher, there are probably more details to be worked out (and who knows how long it would actually take to implement! Lol) but generally I like the gist of it.

    *I'm just going to add this here too: http://meepcraft.com/threads/meepdelivery.36517/
     
  16. MCRichHuey

    MCRichHuey Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    871
    Skwisher, I like some aspects of your idea, but unfortunately there's a way to exploit this kind of system. Any time that the price is dictated by the volume of items available, the person with the highest volume of items wins.

    Example: There are 10 shops selling Gold, each with 10 gold (100 gold total in system). Price is at $10 each. I bring online my own shop, and drop in 1000 gold. Price crashes to $1 each. I buy all the gold available. I have now spent $1100, earned $1000, and have 100 gold that would have cost $1000, but only cost me $100. I put up my own shop again with 10 gold in it, and the price is now $20 each because there aren't any other ships with inventory.

    Keep working on ideas though! It's good to think about how to improve the economy, and eventually we'll get something that works.
     
  17. OneBreadSlice

    OneBreadSlice Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Is there a way to limit the price that can be sold for an item in the vshop?

    IE- Player A has 16 diamonds he would like to sell. He wants to have the cheapest price so he sells them for 125, but sicnr the limit on diamond prices are 175, he cannot. Thus making the lowest price ANYONE can sell them for at 175 meebles.

    Also, you could back this up with an admin shop that only sells items to players, which supports the ideal price to be selling items for. Of course, not every item can be put in here. You'd have to only put in valuable items and basics for nubs (logs, cobble, stone, diamonds, iron, coal, etc).
     
  18. Jwarian

    Jwarian Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    2,505
    first post I've read from you in a while I actually like, +1 for not trying in trollspeak



    also perks don't mess up the economy, they just change it.
     
  19. Hornemans

    Hornemans God of Meebles

    Offline
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    945
    Thanks? I guess...

    I disagree, they defiantly mess it up by DECREASING the demand on all those items I listed above in previous post, and by INCREASING the supply as the same time! So it a double whammy that EXPONENTALLY forces the economy in a downward spiral. NOTE: Im not saying its the only thing but it is CLEARLY a big contributing factor.
     
  20. Jwarian

    Jwarian Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    2,505
    yea but our economy isn't built on citizens selling rotten flesh, everyone selling lemonade in the US for .01$ doesn't cause the whole economy to suck, just greedy people and stupid laws.
    My argument is that those farmables shouldn't really have ever been a market to begin with. The economy is simply reflecting the state of the world it represents, yea diamonds aren't 1000 because we have /fix and free xp. 1.8 enchanting did this to enchanting anyhow as well. the "economy" adapts, and the only thing really hurting it right now is the amount of nether rack being sold.
    Sure quartz/glowstone/clay pay better "hourly" if you're going it alone, but the sheer amount of nether rack thats being moved has resulted in over 20 mil being added to baltop in the last 4 days....on the other hand you could simply argue that we are "active" again and this is just healthy "growth" putting money into the citizen's hands.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page