President Trump

I didn't say that, but its not racist, and the scenario you gave ("some of his friends") was also wrong. I think the ban is wrong, I'm happy that the courts upheld the ban, but what you said wasn't true.

 

Syria is on the temp ban list and Adrian I will have you know I am NOT a racist, but some how I knew that would get brought up. Because every Trump supporter is automatically a "racist", truly is sad what the media and parents have taught our generation. And it wasn't that he just read a website and decided to blow up a night club, people from his heritage country KILL gay people, it is a sin in his origin country, maybe you should read into where he ORIGINATED FROM, did you know if you are born on an airplane and just so happen to be flying over America you are now a legal citizen? Hmm, pretty easy (not saying that's how he was born) but his family was not born in America, that was 1 example of many attacks.

 

I agree automatically assigning a Trump supporter as a "racist" doesn't help dialogue in any fashion, at worst Trump supporters are guilty of lacking any reasonable amount of critical thinking, but while there are clearly elements of racism within his administration, the average supporter isn't.

The issue with his most recent action is that it was ineffective and was rolled out in an incomplete, rushed and horrible fashion. At some point we, as a society, must determine when the cost of "safety" is simply too much. Was the cost of denying the access of over 60,000 legal residents of our country, giving Middle Eastern extremists a powerful tool for recruitment, diminishing our world standing or any of the half-assed decisions this administration's made worth the amount of safety they provided us?

No, it wasn't.

Touching back on the critical thinking, doesn't it just seem more logical that instead of attributing the shortcomings to an entire people/culture/race/religion, it seems much more likely that terrorism, like most terrorism before, stems from a socio-economic standing. People in these areas are using religion as a tool to alter geopolitics, and the area this is occurring tends to suffer from slow or often no economy, they are poor and jobless without meaning in their life. The dynamic shifts when someone with money and power offers a little bit to a person with nothing, as we see this is how gangs in our own country recruit, they offer people with no homes or meaning, a home and meaning.

If you would, could you inform me of your race, religion, and country of origin of your family? If we're going to begin talking about people's heritage and making assumptions on their worldview due to this, I can guarantee that if your a white, western European Christian, your own heritage contains some incidents that would make your hair curl.

The most dangerous thing to our country, thus far, has originated from that sh*tgibbon in the Oval Office in regards to continuous attempts to erode NATO, an organization which was pioneered by our country to try to offset both the world reeling from a World War, and to oppose the wave of authoritarian regimes in the East. Russia has nothing to lose in it's attempt to degrade the pillars of stability and we have nothing to gain from it. China has a billion people and it's only been a real country in the modern era for roughly 70 years, eventually their economy will utterly dwarf ours along with their means of production and we don't even have an idea on how to counter this. We have two active superpowers in the east currently expanding their borders by military means -- And we're freaking out over a few thousand people killed a year (in western nations) by some Arabs.

Being frank, the lives of a few hundred Americans and a few hundred Europeans is not justification enough to begin degrading the pillars of World Order, because what could come after that would be nightmarishly worse. Putin's Russia is not a society I would want to live in, which is nearing to be just as authoritarian as the Soviet Union. We should not be following in their footsteps in anyway, shape, or form.

Your worldview has not been shaped by racism, but by ignorance.

 

I am a white, American Christian from Florida. I will say, your supposed to keep your friends close and your enemies closer, if we paid attention to what Trump is saying "I have respect for Putin but that doesn't mean I have to like him" everyone says Trump and Putin are "best friends" 100% false. Putin actually stated he would go to war with the United States if Hillary got into office.

 

Trump has lied repeatedly on his relationship with Putin stating falsely, numerous times, that he's had no relations with Putin. Several members of his current administration has close ties with the oligarchy in Russia. Russia literally pressed in our elections in attempt to sway it towards Trump. Russia did not do this because they think he's a swell guy, they did it because they had something to gain. I would ask yourself if they have something to gain - What do we have to lose?

Stop bringing up Clinton, I've heard more about Obama and Clinton from Trump supports than ever before - They are now both irrelevant. Trump is the President, and he's solely responsible for the failures - Like a military operation going ahead without sufficient information due to someone saying "Obama didn't have the guts" to do it. Like an executive order so irresponsibly implemented it's now stalled in the courts which is now leading to the President of the United States actively undermining the judicial system and calling into question competency when people disagree with him.

Going back to heritage, without bringing race into it - Do you know what your religion has wrought upon this world? The catholic church began religion cleansing through war almost immediately and it didn't stop there, look at the history of Bapists as they swept through western Europe killing "heretics". What about when Popes were sending crusades to political enemies? How about the fact your religion holds back society as a whole. The funny thing is the same exact criticisms can be applied to nearly every single religion on the face of this planet - Christianity, much like Islam, has lead to the advancement of society many, many times - but at a terrible cost. Perhaps you should learn about terrorism the past 50 years to put this Islamic Terrorism into context - It's not the first time political / societal warfare has been waged through the lense of religion, because more often than not it's the easier vehicle to reach the very masses who are susceptible to believing in far off fairy tales to begin with. Look at the UK/Ireland throughout the greater 1900s - or more closely at the 80s and 90s and the rise of the IRA into mainstream. These acts of terrorism often took place between the Catholic IRA members and the Protestant "loyalists". Look at Buddhist terrorism in Myanmar.

Look at history and look at what it shows when leaders rise on the gloom and doom rhetoric, that society is wrought with issues and he's the only one with solutions. When people disagree you attack their character and accomplishments - you undermine the validity of publications that are against your message.

We have a President and administration (and legislature) that is outright dismissing facts as bullsh*t and pushing outright lies as "Alternative Facts"

FACTS DO NOT HAVE ALTERNATIVES

You have a 1 in 9,300,000 chance of dying in a terrorist attack.

You have a 1 in 43,000 chance of dying at work

You have a 1 in 8,000 chance of dying in a vehicle accident

You have a 1 in 3,000,000 chance of dying of food poisoning

Why are we radically changing society for things that are factually not a major threat to us, and taking no action on things that are a threat?

 

Knowing who is coming into your country is HIGHLY important. Any person with a lick of common sense would know this. Do you lock your house door when you leave your house? Would you just let a stranger come into your home with knowing their past and who they are? America is just like your home. if an American were to go to Iraq or Syria they would die or be tortured, why the hell is it okay for them to treat like that? Y'all Democrats & Liberals expect to save every person, you want to allow everyone to come into America, give them free education, food stamps, section 8 housing and all this FREE stuff! But us Americans get out their and bust our butts to put food on the table, we have Veterans who are homeless and hungry. It's time we put AMERICA FIRST! If I (an American) were to move to Syria right now, I would be treat WAY worse and wouldn't just be given a free ride, we need to take care of ALL AMERICANS before we take care of anyone else. COMMON SENSE!

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 10, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 10, 2017 ---

Helping out other people, helping them get over to America, helping them start a new and better life is 1 thing, but we need to take care of ourselves before we take care of someone else. Period.

 

You know I"m supportive of this dude too but jesus christ you make me cringe
treat people like people, man

 

Muunkee everything I say makes you cringe, please don't.

 

wat

 

Um, if you're Christian shouldn't you want to save every person you could? You do know that Jesus Christ was from the Middle East right? He was from modern day Palestine, a country that neighbors Syria. If Trump had it his way even Jesus Christ himself would technically be banned from this country just based upon where he was born. But I'm sure Jesus is rooting for Americans to turn down all the immigrants from his homeland because that's totally what he would do, right? Are you sure you're Christian??

Gotta say, I really like Christ, but gosh darn I don't really like his followers.

 

This is nothing but you following a radical propaganda to promote sense of nationality to establish a goal that Trump would like to establish.

I'm not American so I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but your recent posts make little to no sense.

What you are saying is that you should deny entry to 60,000 people that are already legal to live in US. Those people have spent a great deal of examination, time, efforts, and money to live a better life here in the United States. Do you know how hard it is to get even a green card? Being born a natural citizen, you may not think about that often. However, I can assure you that denying entry of 60,000 legal residents is like kicking 60,000 people off of the country for "possibly being extremist". You are denying the authority of previous public employees that have accepted them. You are denying the fact that after countless examination, they were considered as safe and the most unlikely to be extremists. You are denying your country's own system of immigration. The current immigration system cannot be more secure. How many major terrorist attacks has america had during Obama's presidency? None. The FBI has large radars and lists of tracking Islamic terrorist groups. Ignoring the reality and following the propaganda might seem like it will make America a safe place. However, the truth is that it will only create more hate which will cause the world to be a more dangerous place.

Let's use your house analogy. You live in a house and you had friends who had family problems and were forced out of their houses. You would of course let them in, if you were a kind person. Then, say one of your friend's family member was caught robbing a bank. Does that mean you should just kick your friend out of your house because you no longer trust them? You know that your friend is trustworthy and has been kind to you.

I'm sure that Syrian democratic supporters will be nice you to you in Syria. If you move to a place with a terrorist presence, sure, you will be tortured. Does that mean you should just cut help to all Syrians? Syria is not one right now, but divided into four major forces: Assad (supported by Russia), ISIL, Syrian Opposition, and the SDF (supported by the USA).

I don't believe that domestic policies should affect foreign policies at all, as one can attempt to make living conditions better for everyone, not just white American veterans.

 

Lets not attack each other here, i simply posted my opinion. To say Trump would ban Jesus Christ himself is ignorant. Trump is not banning anyone permanently he wants to stop people from coming in here illegally, its a pause on them coming in here for 4 months. Sure it may suck for the ones that are innocent, an i feel bad for them however we have to fix some issues. SO i am going to end this conversation right now because i dont like what its turning into, that being said, i hope the views of others doesn't influence the way you look at them, i hope we can all get along, and i hope everyone has a great day.

 

Right, but stopping illegals from crossing our southern border is not the same thing as not knowing who is coming in from the 7 countries in the EO. Visa process takes years and years to complete, we know who we're giving visas to. Additionally, refugees also go through a rigorous vetting process which takes at minimum 18 months to complete. I have no problems freezing immigration from certain countries, but that is not what this EO did - It prevented tens of thousands of LEGAL United States residents from coming home, disrupting their lives, not to mention the hit businesses suffered from such a disruption.

In regards to illegal immigration from our southern border, no wall or presence will completely stop it. Why not look to the logical solutions like punishing businesses who hire illegal immigrants, allowing a more orderly and accesseble route to obtain residency in our country or stopping our war on drugs, which give unprecedented power and sway to the illegal drug cartels plaguing Mexico and South America.

Your assertion on "If an American went to Iraq and Syria" is not inherently true, and when true has quite a few special circumstances attached to it; namely we've invaded Iraq and disrupted their entire way of life and we're actively trying to destabilize a government in Syria, no doubt we've made some enemies - Of course there is risk of American citizens traveling to nations we've invaded recently or are using partisans to take down a government.

Stop generalizing the other side, this "Ya'll liberals" dog whistle is just the same as saying Republicans are racist idiots - It's not inherently true, as each camp has sweeping ideologies encompassed within it. I'm fairly liberal and I couldn't care if everyone in the Middle East killed everyone else in the Middle East - It has no affect on me. What does affect me is the fear-mongering it leads to here, and the restrictions of my rights as a citizen and the ramping up to a further police state. I wholly agree with America First - Except Trump has no notion of putting our people first. Doing things as giving everyone access to higher education is putting America First, because it makes us technologically stronger and helps us further complete in the global economy. Giving the people access to reasonable and affordable health care makes us as a society stronger and saves costs down the road. Spending money on infrastructure to put people to work and make business more friendly is another way we can put America First.

I would be all for entitlement reform, requiring beneficiaries to work for their benefits similar to community service, but the entitlements you're talking about simply isn't long-term, section 8 housing takes years and years to get into, food stamps are meant to keep you fed and not much more. As far as veterans being homeless, I'm not sure why we couldn't just house them immediately, the federal government surely has the funds to do that - Or, not pointlessly invade two countries which ends up afflicting thousands upon thousands of soldiers with mental illness.

I think putting America First also includes American values, which this country was founded on. We're all equal, and we're all immigrants coming to a new land to find success, and the minute we ditch those values, we ditch the strength which propelled us to dominate the world. We're no longer America, we're just another country in the world.

 

You have your thoughts i have mine. No two people are alike so no one will ever agree on the same exact thing. again, i no longer want to participate in this discussion as it is leading to no where. y'all can talk it up but leave me out of it please! have a great day!

 

This is the third time you've said you were leaving.
Either leave or stop saying you're going too.

 

Never said it wasn't ok, I was trying to see if you belief fairy tales, or can back any of your arguments up with actual data.

 

Hey now. I don't understand how one comment that had nothing to do with a specific action could make someone a racist, or anything else for that matter. Saying that Trump is racist is a little far out. I mean, I'm not on the Trump train, but I can see positives in what is at hand. Those countries are not banned indefinitely. There is a temporary block. Until things can be aligned. It's not that he is saying we won't be allowing others in, he just wants them to enter the right way, and for that I can agree.

Look at it like this:
-You are playing on a server, you break a rule, you get thrown out.. you ban evade (at account or whatever) and come back in without permission. You are not entering properly.

- you come into the country, you break a law, let's just say you get deported (or banned, whatever), you come back by means other than entering through border security or whatever. That is not correct.

In both instances, you know you can't get in through means necessary so you find an alternate route. Like minecraft IP checks or blocking an IGN entering the server, we as a country must find a way to advert the illegal entering into our country (in Mr Trump's case, he feels a wall will do some good.. I guess we will see.). NOT simply because we don't want them here, but because we want them to enter the right way.

I don't see how any of this has any bearing whatsoever on anyone's religion. I'm a Christian. Do you want to harp on me because I can see where it's worth a shot? This is a major problem. When did we start hating eachother over a matter of opinion? I have friends that voted for Hillary, I have friends who voted Trump. Guess what? We are still friends.

And Muunkee.. I don't even have words for you right now that wouldn't be edited out so I'm gonna have to stop.

Everyone smile, now.

 

Just to clarify: I never attacked you or anyone else personally. If you were offended I apologize.

I've noticed that you tend to back out of the conversation when you have no evidence to back up your opinion. I agree that it is important for different people to have different political opinions, however I wouldn't believe something solely based off of your judgements, as there are more facts that can change your opinion in the world I also would appreciate if you actually read and respond to the messages that we take time to write, because I want to know more about your ideas, and not just mine. Ignoring other opinions will get us nowhere.

 

I think he did answer, just didn't give the answer you wanted. His original comment was just that, a simple comment. Not aimed to disrupt anyone's day. Not to start a debate. But to make a simple statement. He chose to end the topic to ease the tension which is probably smart because, as he already mentioned, no two people have the same opinion. To maintain a peaceful atmosphere and stop the crazy before it got any worse, he withdrew. That was his answer.