Continue here about guns.

gun safety is pretty strict nowadays, and it was really hard for myself to go buy an M4 airsoft gun, even with my parents standing around me. its kinda turning into sorts of BS of how hard it is.

 

It should be hard to get a gun, making it easy to get a gun allows stupid people to get them.

 

no kidding. we can't have crazy people walking around, waving their guns.

 

For everyone that does not know what common sense gun reform is, well, here you go.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 21, 2018 ---

Also, check this channel out. If you are a liberal that doesn't know semi-auto from a fully auto then this is for you. Get educated.
StevenCrowder

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 21, 2018 ---

By the way, for California to ban magazines with over 10 rounds is crazy because most modern 9 mm handguns have 20 rounds! So California, you have created some of the worst gun laws in the USA congratulations. Sorry, Chicago has worse gun laws, no wonder they have the highest crime rate in the USA.

 

The point of magazine bans is to make gun owners have to purchase new magazines, and force manufacturers to make these new magazines as larger ones get banned.

 

There is no such thing as "common sense" gun control because everyone has their own interpretation of that term.

The gun control debate in America:

*I want to ban bump stocks, an accessory that makes a semi-automatic rifles fire like an automatic variant of the gun.
People on one extreme: "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

That being said, I'm not just picking on people that believe in the above statement. Both sides of the political spectrum are pretty nuts in their own regard. The other side then goes on saying "Ban all guns" believing that will somehow magically fix the problem of gun violence. Then there are more "moderate" people that say "Ban assault weapons", and sure, in a perfect world I would love for assault style weapons to be banned in the United States but that isn't going to happen. Banning assault style weapons and trying to seize them would cause an unreal amount of civil unrest in this country... There are also MILLIONS in circulation so you're not getting rid of them, sorry, I'm just being a realist. The USA has a different culture than Australia, some laws work in different parts of the world because people are culturally different.

So then there's other measures like background checks, which many will say "Oh we already have them" etc. Well that's partially true but there are HUGE issues with the screenings that go on currently. There's no excuse for someone being able to legally purchase an AR-15 that was previously convicted of a violent crime, but due to our poor screening, a said person was able to obtain one and incidentally shot up a Church in Texas.

Then there's people that say "bad guys will get a gun anyway etc." well maybe that's true, but just because they are hypothetically going to get one does it mean we should willingly enable every crazy idiot that wants to purchase a firearm? Need I remind you that the man that shot up Las Vegas was a "good guy with a gun", he legally purchased his weapons, the Florida shooting.... That animal legally purchased his AR-15, he was a "good guy with a gun" according to our current laws/procedure. I am going to be a pharmacist in 2 months and I am sure everyone here has heard of the opioid epidemic in America.... Would it be responsible of me to fill prescriptions that I knew shouldn't be filled because "Oh Mr.DrugAbuser will just buy some percocet on the street, I don't want him to get fake pills with elephant tranquilizers that will make him OD, so I'll just fill his percocet prescription"? HELL NO, I would be fired and blacklisted from getting another job. Now, I understand that the Las Vegas guy had no prior scuffles with the law that would have flagged him but the Texas Church shooter had been convicted of domestic abuse.... A simple piece of legislation that focused on better background checks where agencies communicated better could have prevented him from purchasing an AR-15.

Simply put, if a piece of legislation which is a frivolous piece of paper can stop even ONE shooting or maybe even one mass shooting then it is worth it. Strengthening background checks does not infringe on a law abiding citizen's right to bear arms. If a person has acted within the law and isn't a mental case they can purchase a gun. *Mind is blown right now

Then we get to things like age.... Maybe if 18 and 19 year old high school seniors aren't able to legally purchase a gun they wouldn't have been able to get their hands on one to shoot up a school, or they would have illegally obtained a handgun and killed less people...There's the argument "If I can serve in the military and die for my country at 18 then I should be able to own a firearm at that age", and that is a very valid argument. There is also the argument that "If my child can't go out and purchase a six pack of beer why can they purchase an AR-15", which is another very valid argument. It might be a foreign concept to politicians but it might not be a terrible idea of raising the age to some arbitrary number but allowing citizens that are enlisted in the military to own a firearm before coming of age. Let's be honest with ourselves.... To the children on the server I don't mean to be frank but when you're 18 years old you are not a damn adult, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Oh wait, but there's more! Many people will be quick to mention Chicago and yes, it is not a very nice place to be when you put crime into perspective but they don't really dig deeper... Currently the system is pretty flawed. Example, I am a New Jersey resident and I moved to South Florida for college... I had someone break into my house and I was spooked, I made up the decision in my mind I was going to purchase a firearm for protection. So, I go to a gun shop and I see some glocks and not knowing anything about guns roughly 2 1/2 years ago I asked the clerk if I could purchase it. So, he asks for my ID and then bam! "You're a New Jersey resident we can't sell you a handgun but we can sell you a long gun but it's you're responsibility not to take it across state lines". So, I did what any logical person would do, I dropped my wallet and sprinted out of the store because I was fearful that if I had an AR15 it would kill me from under my bed. Just kidding, I bought the rifle.... You see this is a problem, one state's lax gun laws can essentially make another state's laws meaningless. In good faith I have never taken my rifle across state lines, I'm actually trying to find someone to sell it too... but if I was some psychopath say from Chicago I could just take a trip to Florida and purchase an AR-15 then drive it back to Chicago.... If you don't see the problem there then I just don't know...

I'm not saying we should ban assault weapons... The United States was clear when they wrote the second amendment but at the same time they never envisioned a world where an overly sensitive (or sick) 18 year old could walk in a shop and purchase a weapon capable of firing 30 rounds off in 5 seconds and then repeating that cycle over and over... Times change and people definitely change... The problem is deeper than guns because a long time ago we didn't have kids running around with rifles killing mass amounts of people, there's a disconnect, a diminishing value of life, and this is what we get. We shouldn't just throw our hands up in the air and accept the status quo anymore, we should adapt to our current situation and try and put measures in place to REDUCE the amount of mass shootings. For those that believe the Las Vegas guy could have killed the same amount of people with a handgun, you should probably rethink your stance... Assault style weapons are more capable of killing more people... That's what they were designed to do. Going back a bit, the key word is reduce. Only a fool believes that legislation will stop all mass shootings, we can only hope to reduce it. The sentiment "NEVER AGAIN" is a beautiful idealistic fantasy in the world we live in. There are countries where people are able to obtain firearms and they don't have the number of mass shootings that we do here, they just put restrictions on certain people that are unfit to own one (Violent criminals, deranged individuals).

That's my piece.

 

#NeverAgain
Also, a recent ruling determined that assault rifles were declared not protected under the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

 

Unless it’s the Supreme Court the ruling is pretty much meaningless across state lines.... Lower level courts make rulings that defy federal law all the time, that doesn’t make the rulings correct. It’s all due to the law being “open to interpretation” by whoever is judging it. Just because a certain plant is legal in Colorado because a Colorado court said so doesn’t make it legal across the federal level. Federal law trumps state law.

I’m sorry but #NeverAgain is a fantasy and while we can reform our laws we can’t be living in a fantasy land believing laws will stop all shootings.... because you know, never means never ever... and it’s going to happen again no matter what laws are passed. I’m not saying I’m not supportive of more protective measures but be honest with yourself.

 

It’s nerf or nothin

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 22, 2018 ---

Assault is an action

 

If I recall correctly this was due to a clerical error, not a lack of legal guidance.

Can you define what an assault rifle is?

 

an assault rifle is something like an AR-15 or the weapon used with a bump stock during the Las Vegas shooting

 

My Uni brought in "therapy dogs" because people were complaining about the stress of midterms. These are 18 to twenty-something "adults" who need to pet dogs because they have exams.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 23, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 23, 2018 ---

Actually, an assault rifle is a rifle with a select fire option. Usually it means having a selector with Safe/Semi/Auto but for most of NATO its Safe/Semi/Burst

 

So you want a law banning assault rifles to say “no AR-15’s or that weapon Stephen paddock put a bump stock on” right?

 

The ignorance here is killing my soul.

An “assault rifle” is a rifle with a full auto option. Theirs no debate here. Im going to encourage you all to look up 2 firearms.
Ar-15
Ruger Mini-14

Both:
.223 calibur
Take the same magazine
Semi auto (1 shot per trigger pull)
Approximate size
Customizeable
Laws to aquire

Difference:
Ones plastic, ones wood.

Now where do you see any ban on ARs doing anything other than making you feel better? Its a stupid option and its literal ignorance of firearms thats threatning this. Ive never seen someone who is KNOWLEDGEABLE about firearms on the side of banning. Why is this? Because its a safety blanket ban. Everyone truly knows it will do nothing but make people feel better for a little while.

If anyone here is knowledgeable about firearms and wants to ban. Please speak up. Dont claim to be, because you will be challenged by myself. (Avid collector, owner of 4 (self built) AR15s, 50+ firearms, certified glock armoror, firearms instructor.

Lets have the discussion.

P.s. if anyone is interested in learning more let me know.

 

How would a gun ban control the ghost guns being smuggled into America, they are bought on the streets and will continue to be after law changes. They don't care who they sell to whether that be the next school shooter or those who are banging, guns will still be purchasable for those who have ill intentions.

Gun law won't change anything, there will always be those being armed who intend to harm and those who collect them for a hobby.

 

I’m not for banning, I’m for regulating.
I think we, the world, and particularly the US, definitely are faced to a problem.
Though it truly is sad to say it, there will be another mass shooting sooner or later. People are devastated when a shooting occures, get over it after a week or two and the cycle starts again. This is observed by the fact that since 2012, there has been more than 1600 mass shootings, killing more than 1800 people and wounding more than 6400.

I think there are a few good solutions available, but I don’t think banning guns is one of them.
I think that banning guns is a very easy solution, though it isn’t thought out. I’m not against guns, though I’m against gun violence.

The first measure should be creating a generation of gun safety. The US has 88.8 guns per 100 people, which means there is almost one privately owned gun per American citizen, and more than one per adult American. I think this could be done by cracking down on mandatory training, and regular checkups, just as much as a driving’s license.
Another measure would be to enforce and create laws, such as banning high capacity magazines (something like 30 rounds or more), or a more drastic would be to ban assault riffles, but this wouldn’t be great because as @Kling pointed out, there will always be some in circulation.
While gun ownership has been rising, the US has cut down on mental health services, which isn’t too great considering that the US holds five percent of the world’s population but also holds thirty one percent of the world’s masse shooters (source: CNN). Mental health institutions and treatment facilities should be reinstated, and we should help our surroundings obtain treatment.
I also think we should reduce the exposure of our children to violence, which includes not selling fake but real like guns, or exposing them to certain images or clips from the media.

Though I think that most of all, the most important part is to recognize gun violence as an issue that is causing deaths, and find comprehensive solutions rather than being in denial.

This was based on articles I have read in the past and my own perspective on this subject. Though I know very little about firearms, and @KlutchDecals, I’d be more than happy to learn more if you find the time to PM me.

 

It stems from the problem of the systems not being integrated, all departments should be able to freely share information in real time like the FBI, local policing records, disciplinary records from military branches etc, although I don't know if any bills that will come up will improve this. But yes, technically it was due to clerical error but the system can be greatly improved to increase efficiency.

Issue with the above statement is that other countries have gun laws and they seem to work but people like to leave out the fact that other violent crime skyrockets when you enact "strict" gun control measures. It goes back to my analogy with drugs... I can't fill narcotic prescriptions if I knowingly know they abuse the drug, will the person still probably obtain it on the streets illegally? Certainly, but does that mean I should willingly enable them? No, its irresponsible. I'm just saying if someone that isn't fit to own a weapon wants to purchase an AR-15 or AK-47 we shouldn't just willingly give it to them because "oh they will just get one anyway", it's just an overall poor argument. Alcohol is readily assessable to 13 and 14 year old kids.... Does that mean liquor stores should just sell to underage kids because "Oh those darn kids are gonna get booze somehow regardless if I sell it or not", its MORALLY WRONG. The fact of the matter is if you are not a nut case and you weren't convicted of some violent crime then sure, you can own a firearm.... There's nothing wrong with guns, there has been a change in the culture but some measures should be taken to help REDUCE (not eliminate, you can't eliminate it) gun violence.

Again... I'll say it, its the PERSON not the GUN but maybe we should make it a little more difficult for the PERSON to get the gun if they are unfit.

I totally agree with your statement when it comes to the AR-15 and Mini-14, a lot of people are ignorant to the fact they are pretty much the same thing lol... actually the Mini-14 might be more problematic because maybe it has less of a tendency to jam? I honestly don't know, that's just a guess, anyhow, if you clean your AR it's not really going to jam anyway. And yes, generally people view the AR or AK as "bad guns" because they look scary, whereas the Mini-14 looks like a nice wooden gun that a gentleman would use for hunting.

I personally am not for a ban on "assault style weapons", I will correct my statement on "assault rifles" because you're correct in that regard, no debate there. The weapons are actually designed for what the 2nd amendment is all about... Many people don't like to think this but the 2nd amendment is in place to keep the government in check, not so you have the right to hunt geese flying in the sky. We just have to realize that these weapons are more attractive to lunatics for obvious reasons... they are easier to use in the hands of a novice, and can do more damage to more people when compared to a handgun. You can't maintain the same rate of fire and be as accurate when comparing a glock to an AR-15/AK47/Mini-14 etc... Example, my AR-15 I can shoot 30 rounds all within a 1 and 1/2 inch grouping from 30 meters after I sighted my EOTech, granted I space my shots out by about 2 seconds (I have also dumped 30 rounds down range in 5-6 seconds and its not that hard to fit all the shots in a body sized target spread). I am by no means a expert shooter, in fact I rarely go to the range but these weapons are pretty easy to handle. We are actually lucky these animals get AR-15s though and not AK's because the larger caliber from an AK styled rifle does a lot more damage to the body.... And you're correct in the sense an "assault weapons" ban won't stop the problem, its been done before here and it didn't work.

All that being said there's nothing wrong in trying to place restrictions on people that are clearly unfit to possess such weapons. I'm not really for registration all that much because everyone knows what that leads to....

Nice to see that you're a realist though... many people seem to believe that an outright ban of assault style rifles will somehow stop school shootings... they won't.

 

@Kazarkas tendency to jam is so minimal on ether gun. Honestly I go through 1000 rounds with no jams. Its so minimal a thought but I would agree, unless youre buying a nice AR, it is potientially an issue. Clearing jams on an AR with a forward assist takes about 10 seconds though so. Haha

@riri30 comprehensive changes? Like? What would qualify?

 

Many many rifles look similar as an ar-15 please be more specific

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 23, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 23, 2018 ---