Gay Rights

I prefer not to call it "gay marriage", just marriage, because that would imply that there is a difference in marriage between couples that are the same gender and marriage couples that are not the same gender.

 

But that's just wrong. There is a difference between heterosexual marriage and homosexual marriage; One is between a man and a woman, and one is between two homosexuals. There is no difference in the rights, but it's like calling red paint the same as blue paint. Both are paint, but they are still different.

 

Usual and typical both mean the common action, aka the majority. Being a pedophile is not normal - it's not the mainstream.

So yes, it does.

</3 *her

You can't use personal definitions in a debate without expressing them clearly so that everyone knows what we're talking about. Normal is mainstream, aka the majority. If you don't agree with that, use a different word, like natural.

Well, tbh, there is a difference. There's a guy/guy or girl/girl getting married rather than a guy/girl. It's still gay marriage. Doesn't mean anything negative, but I think it's much better used for clarity.

Listen up. I was just ranting about this the other night.

PEOPLE ARE TOO DAMN POLITICALLY CORRECT ABOUT THIS. If you're against a minority, if you don't like them, guess what? It's perfectly fine. I don't like peaches, but I'm not called a picky bigot. But if I say I'm against gay marriage? 'You homophobic bigot!" Are you kidding me? This is the same way people treated gay people when they weren't popular. Now all of a sudden it gets turned around and others are treated how they were? Does that make you better than all the actual homophobic bigots?

Skaros shared with me this video, https://www.facebook.com/bluenationreview/posts/459791770869370.
Watch it. Then read the comments.

All of them are hateful, rude, spiteful, calling them horrible and terrible people for doing this. Calling it a joke.
Yet with today's pressures, anyone with politically incorrect or different opinions are treated badly because of it. I've had terrible experiences with trans people, ( including being threatened for telling one to deal with me not being able to remember who to call her/him her/him around. It's confusing) so I have a tendency to dislike them. But, I've also had positive experiences (albeit much fewer).
But this goes for anything.
There are technically no such things as wrong opinions.
Having a different opinion does not make you a terrible person or worthy of abuse.
This concept doesn't just apply to this.

I just find it pathetic how people were battered and abused for support of gay rights/people, and now that the tables turned, THE SAME PEOPLE turn around and abuse right back. It's pathetic and sad.

Tl;dr: treat people like you want to be treated. Golden rule people. Stop accusing people of being bigoted/hateful/terrible for an opinion, especially expressed in a non-accusing/hateful manner.


EDIT: another example of this is being catholic. You won't believe how many people think I'm automatically a bigoted, self-righteous, uninformed, rude idiot just for having a religion that most people don't like. Ironically, a while ago, it was a good thing to have a religion (especially Catholicism in Europe).
Just stop being so rude.

 

LOOKS LIKE THE PRO-GAY RIGHTS SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT WON BECAUSE GAY MARRIAGE IS NOW LEGAL ACROSS THE U.S. AS OF TWO DAYS AGO

 

Lol sorry.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2015, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2015 ---

That was a really nice rant, btw.

 

I just got back from a trip and this thread blew up, so apologies if I'm repeating what others have said when I reply to you guys I didn't read the entire thread before starting this post.

It doesn't in the slightest. My parents would never cover my eyes if we were to see that, and I know plenty of others that way. Then again, I live in Canada, where same-sex marriage has been legalized for over a decade, so it may not seem the same way for me as it is for you.

It seems strange to me in general that people don't support it. Using logic, two people of the same sex being allowed to get married doesn't affect your life in any way, shape or form, so why should it be prevented? As of now it's a legal thing anyways; people mostly wanted the same rights as straight couples, which is far from too much to ask.

Also, why again is having a mother and a father necessary?

Wowww... I'm sorry, but really? From my eyes, this is you saying that if someone isn't against same-sex relationships, they are not in their right minds. If I were to have children and cover their eyes for any reason involving people kissing, I wouldn't do it just for same-sex couples. Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone who is fine with same-sex couples is not insane.

How do you know? How do you know? This is just like saying that every family with straight parents would cover the eyes of a kid that saw same-sex PDAs. You really don't know who they are, how their family works, or anything about them. This is assuming a lot.

You have no idea. One of my parents was neglected and abused as a child and they are one of the most amazing people I know. Whoever told you that same-sex couples are inherently worse parents is just... wrong. Just like if anyone told you that women are inherently better than men at parenting; it's just completely wrong.

But it actually doesn't.

How can you possibly assume that?

Think about it. What if they 'best' way for you to get a child was if you married someone of the same sex? Would you do it? Would you willingly put yourself into a relationship where you knew that you would never truly love the person you were with?

How is it just wrong. Tell me, why is it so wrong to love someone, no matter their gender?

How do you think someone who is homosexual feels if someone of the opposite sex flirts with them? Furthermore, how would you feel if someone of the opposite sex all of a sudden came up and started touching you? It's common sense; you don't let them, it's an unwanted action.

I don't care either way. Also, life with same-sex parents has never been proven to be inherently worse than 'normal parents', as you call it. If you give me hard proof on this, I will believe it.

Where again was this said in the bible? Wasn't the only place it was said in the Bible was in Leviticus, or in other words, in the Old Testament, which is not wholly followed by a large amount of Christians?

These are two examples of places in the New Testament where that was challenged. As much as I am not Christian, this is a good example of how you do not know the Bible well enough to make claims like this.

http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/born_gay.html
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/early_church.html

I agree as well There is a difference, and to make it clear, 'same-sex marriage' should have been used instead of just 'marriage'.

I personally feel weird using the word 'gay' or 'gays' though, because of the negative connotation surrounding it as it was used as a weapon many a time. This is personal, it bothers me to use it (and if you look closely at my posts I use the word 'gay' as little as I possibly can ) but I'm not gonna ask you guys to use it differently.

Agree 100%. People are dumb and don't think about other people when they talk

I get praised as 'super nice' and 'friendly' when all I do is try to think about what another person could be going through at this point in time, or why they have that idea or opinion xD

People doing this need to stop. I have no problem with someone believing something different as long as they don't try to shove it down my throat. It does however rub me the wrong way when people in a religion treat others as 'misguided' or 'lost' and that they need to be 'shown the way' if they have a different religion.

Peh, and I'm not accusing you of doing that. You are the kind of person where your religion doesn't affect every single conversation and you don't try to convince people that it is the only right thing.

Anyways, this was long and probably made little sense.

 

Even though I don't believe in any god, I also don't have a problem with other people who do. I don't care if someone is Christian, Muslim, Catholic, Buddhist, Taoist, or anything else. The one thing I hate is when people use religion as an excuse to commit horrible crimes.

The same goes for gay people; I don't care if they are gay or whatnot, as long as they don't use it as an excuse for hate-based actions. I haven't really seen much of this, just a few comments here and there, and so I think I would be ignoring this all, if it weren't for the great fun of arguing.

 

Don't hate?? you're 100% against ME. Me just EXISTING AS A PERSON. Me wanting to get MARRIED SOMEDAY. Me wanting to not be SHAMED for kissing my girlfriend in public. Me wanting to be able to RAISE KIDS IN A LOVING HOME SOMEDAY.
That's not just something you think as if it's an opinion or something, it's you hating me for existing.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 29, 2015, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2015 ---

Ok news flash!!! Not every person that belongs to a category of people is responsible for how others of their category act!!
It's like some terrorist group blowing two buildings up and then blaming everyone of their religion for it!! Constantly thinking everyone of that religion will do something like that!! Constantly thinking people of that religion agree with what happened!!
oh WAIT that's STILL HAPPENING.
anyways
By the by, your trans friend was completely correct in being upset with you not remembering their pronouns. It's not that fricking difficult. What if I kept calling you the wrong pronoun??? doesn't it upset you?? "sorry its so confusing!!" Just because you don't feel like learning their pronoun properly doesn't mean you can suddenly say your experiences with trans people are bad??? It just means you're transphobic.
And to top it all off you're even homophobic!! yes saying you don't like gays makes you homophobic!! that's what the word means!! Not liking a group of people isn't an opinion, it's discrimination!! It's like saying "look I have 'bad' experiences with black people so I just don't like them!! It's just an opinion im not racist!!"
Wanna know some cool facts??? Not liking people for existing in a manner you don't agree with IS BIGOTED/HATEFUL/TERRIBLE. Simply because you erase the possibility of ever getting to know them as an actual individual human being! You erase any possibility of reaching out beyond your Carbon Copy Friends™ and embracing the diversity of the human race! You and people Like You also tend to speak out against people Like Me and want to constantly belittle us and restrict our freedoms! Like I don't know, maybe getting married?
Also, I didn't automatically think you were a bigoted, self-righteous, uninformed, rude idiot just for being catholic. But now that you've expressed your bigoted, self-righteous, uninformed, rude, and very stupid opinion, my judgement of you has been made! I don't care if you hand feed orphan puppies every second of your life, unless you understand that your "opinion" actually hurts people and you take the time to be respectful to everyone's diversity I will continue to think of you as a bad person!

 

I totally missed this thing about transgenderism. I think it's dumb for someone to expect you to know what pronoun to call them if they don't tell you, but once they tell you, it's kinda common courtesy to call someone by the right pronoun.

I can actually make a good analogy out of this. You know how it is when someone assumes you're a guy here on Meep, and you politely correct them to the fact that you are female? You expect them to get it correct now, right? I mean, it's no excuse to bite someone's face off necessarily, but you have no idea how many times people have probably misidentified them; I'm sure it gets old.

Fang is actually presenting her arguments in a very respectful way, so she really should not be called 'transphobic' and 'homophobic'. As much as I disagree with her, and as much as I can see this is extremely important to you, it's not a good reason to be so incredibly rude.

 

Okay, I guess I didn't explain this really clearly.

I'm going to call them Olivia.
Olivia threatened me for harassment for not calling them 'her' around certain people (about 13) and 'him' around everyone else. Which means I was yelled at for not switching if another person joined the conversation. Literally yelled at. Then I was threatened to be "taken to the dean" for harassment (by her). Afterwards, when I told her to choose one pronoun, and suggested them/they to make things easier, she told me I was harassing her again. And that I was homophobic (they are trans/gay). And that she hated they/them and I should stick to memorizing who to use which pronoun with.
Which I refused to do, because while I don't mind being polite and trying to remember what pronoun to use, it is extremely rude to offend, insult, and threaten me for either 1. Forgetting to use this specific one in front of this specific person or 2. DEMAND I use a pronoun for someone who it technically does not apply to. Especially an ambiguous one like they or them. (Like, seriously, at least ask politely. And don't get mad if I mess up - my whole life English has taught me a female is a she and a male is a he, and genders don't matter in pronouns, because they describe sex, not gender. But hell, I didn't even know there was a difference until a few years ago!)

Finally, after about two months of me trying very hard to please them, they said I gave them a panic attack and caused them to attempt suicide. At that point I gave up.

Tolerance is a two-way street. I don't think that it's fair that I can't mess up without getting screamed at, but I must at all times remain polite to someone who's threatening me.
That doesn't make me homophobic/transphobic/bigoted, does it?

First off, please show me where I said I was against gays?
Secondly, discrimination is an act based on a stereotype or assumption. Or, according to wiki, "treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit."
In other words, the action of. If no action is done, what harm does it do?
Anyway, a lot of people don't like dogs because they bit them as a child or such... it's kinda the same concept. It's not something most people would call racism, especially because it doesn't mean you hate them. Similarly, if you don't support gay rights but don't actively hate them, what's the harm?

Those are opinions.

You make me out to be a villain. I completely "embrace the diversity of the human race." My friend group is almost entirely made up of people from the LGBT community. I love them all. My best friend is bisexual, my other best friend is lesbian. And my best guy friend is straight.

Ironic, considering you're saying I'm a bad person for assuming other people are bad people, though you're assuming that I assume that.

Besides that, y our opinion isn't affecting me in any way. If you don't like me, that's your problem. I'm being myself and you can't accept that... are you telling me being myself is wrong? Yet... you don't like people that tell you the same thing? I'm not hurting anybody.

So, what makes you any better than the homophobic bigot you claim I am?

Also, you can try to convince him he's wrong, but believe me, you can't convince people by screaming about how bigoted they are. If you want people to respect and listen to you, don't yell, explain.

 

You tried for TWO MONTHS?!?!? Damn you're nice.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 29, 2015, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2015 ---

I would honestly feel grossed out no matter who was making out (I assume you mean prolonged pda's because that's what makes a 'scene'), but that's just me.

 

Thank you for explaining the whole story That's dumb, they should not scream at you for getting it wrong in front of specific people, especially if they ask you to make it different? :/

 

Listen I don't know Olivia personally but I'm just going to have to assume the reason they want you to use different pronouns around different people is because they may not be out to everyone. When you use the wrong pronouns around the wrong people you could be putting them in danger! People literally attack/abuse/torment trans people just for existing! The panic attack could have been caused by a specific individual you almost outted them to. I understand you're trying, but you have to make an honest effort for them, because they trusted you as one of the individuals they came out to. If you simply dropped them as a friend because you couldn't get their pronouns right, you're hurting more than helping. It's really not uncommon for LGBT+ to not have many straight friends or friends at all, and when you haven't any friends, it's more difficult to deal with day-to-day battles.

 

This is true, although the screaming was a bit much.

 

In my opinion, I don't think having gay parents affects a child. I can only really see one downside to having two male parents, and that is the impossibility of breastfeeding infants. Breastfeeding provides an important oppurtunity for an infant to bond with it's mother. This is very important to the development and learning of the baby. Men can't breastfeed their children. (But they do have nipples, which makes no sense as they are completley useless.

 

Nipples aren't completely useless. I enjoy stroking mine

 

That's going in my signature.

 

I'm honored.

 

Okay... Lesson time. I'll try not to go into it too much, but I'll say this. Guys start as girls, and then they... change. That's the cause of certain...things.

I hope I was vague enough

 

At no point in time was this the case; this 'panic attack' was from me telling her off for yelling at me for saying the wrong pronoun in front of them (they are girl -> guy) to their boyfriend, who knows that they were trans.

I don't think you understand.
I tried for two months. It's hard to change something in a language you know really well and use everyday. On top of that, it's extremely difficult to remember a certain list of people you can use it around that changes (at the time of when I gave up, there were 13 people on this list).

Lol
They threatened me to go to the dean for "harassing" them. You really think they'd let met talk to them after that?
Besides that, some friend they are, treating me like garbage, gossiping about everything, threatening me, and saying that I almost caused her to commit suicide. I dropped her as a friend because she was screwing up my life, my friend group, and hurting me when I was trying to help.


Honestly, just don't try to offend her. She was extremely unreasonable, rude, etc, but that's the second experience I had with a transgender person. Negative reinforcement (aka being yelled at for screwing up) doesn't work. My first experience with someone trans was with Vann, who was polite about it and tolerated when people messed up. Why? Because they usually correct themselves without screaming. I was able/am able to call him by the right pronoun easily, while you can see above I keep calling olivia "she" because that's still how I think of her. Every time I wrote them/they, I had to erase she beforehand.

Not everyone is bad, but please stop pretending everyone is good. Those two months of hell is why I am always cautious about transgender people until I know that they're not stupidly unreasonable like she was.