Bring back Spawner Mining

In years past Meepers had the ability to silk touch spawners. This in many ways drove the server economy and I would imagine, the Meepcraft $ IRL.
I personally payed a good sum of money to get Elite so I could have certain spawners. This allowed for easier XP for enchanting among many other things.

Fast forward to today and I've spent the last couple of days on the server running around the various shops, and there are not many. Ebooks are almost non existant, god picks, tool and armor are unfindable, and because of the lack of good tools and armor, there is little to nothing in many of the shops, tools and armor being needed to create the rest of the industry on the server.

I'm not sure how Meepcraft has attempted to boost its economy since getting rid of spawners, but from what I can see it has been completely ineffective.
I personally would like to see spawner mining come back, thus getting rid of the bottle neck we currently have, and boosting meepcraft back into a thriving economy, and not a DayZ style scrap for what you can market.
And I would be very disappointing as well if meep tried some "Other means of fixing this issue" that ultimately would just be a bandaid on a broken artery.

I am starting #BringBackSpawners on this server!

 

I don't think spawners really help the economy; In my opinion they actually kind of destroy it by creating too much supply compared to the demand of many items (virtually all mob drops, plants via bonemeal, food and wool via cow and sheep spawners, furnace fuel via blaze spawners, etc). This creates a flooded economy where resources basically have no value, and thus cannot be traded, which hurts the economy. This is why god armor, tools, and weapons were so easy to come by in the past, because

1. Most other markets were too flooded with items to make a profit, thus driving people to one of the few markets that was still viable, and 2. Because spawners lead to hassle-free XP on demand, which makes acquiring enchanted books and equipment much easier to do than if huge grinders weren't an option.

People can still use spawners, and grinders are still a thing. However, re-introducing spawner mining (as it was about a year ago) would, as I said above, ruin many parts of the economy.

 

I can easily see your point, however I have reference to the contrary. My brother (Tully824) Ran the most successful godshop in meep a few years back, and I had a shop that sold potions as well as many of the other ingame items. Both of us did well and the demand was never really an issue.

Especially starting up, it made the economy viable for new players who could get gear and supply demands of the various shops.

And as for Towny, owning Pwarps and a towny its self was and I imagine is still very expensive. A flowing economy helps keep towny going. Again I've been to many of the various shops having purchased someones towny shops guide book, and its kind of sad. There's demand, but no supply.

And I certainly didnt pay over $60 of my own money for /hat

 

So tell me; how does this perk exactly help the economy? You claim that the economy needs a boost because none of the god tools are in stock. Okay, I agree with that statement. I personally think that they should do something with increasing the villager supply, as most of the enchanted tool/book supply is supplied by villagers. However, spawners supply mob root mainly. Mob root is plenty in meep. I often throw them away as junk; there is no need to increase the already abundant supply.

Yes, players can also use XP to enchant. In this server, we can convert XP to enchantment bottles with /bottle for the market. Therefore, I'm afraid that if this suggestion was accepted, XP will drop in value and we don't need to lose another market like that.

If you are looking to farm XP efficiently, I invite you to use the grinder at /pwarp service, where you can use the four cave spider spawner grinder for free (bane 5 sweep 3 sword recommended)

 

I would say nice plug for your warp, however you've defeated your own argument. How does this sound?

We don't need spawners for easy XP, it decreases the value, so if you need XP, come use my spawners.

 

So I'm a little torn on this issue, as I can easily see both sides.

On the one hand, like many others I'm one of those people who bought Elite primarily for spawner mining. I'm definitely empathetic towards those who did so and are now upset that it's been removed.

And, to be fair about the economy, spawners create a different economy altogether through the fact that they can be bought and sold. If you mined a spawner in the wild, you could sell it to someone in Towny to use for their grinder or even use it yourself.

Not to mention the fact that having this as a perk will lead to many more people buying Elite+ ranks because they want to mine spawners.

In general, as a personal note, I also felt that mining spawners was a big draw to keeping me on the server anyways. It felt relatively unique and was something that set Meep apart.

But the suggestion isn't flawless.

This is the truth - spawners utterly decimated any economy for bones, arrows, spider eyes, rotten flesh, string, etc. Any and all mob drops were incredibly common and anything made from them was too.

To a lesser extent, there's the issue of XP, though unlike a lot of people I'm not going to fool myself into thinking that the market for XP and XP related items will ever be incredible, as we still have grinders despite the limits. It will still decrease the prices of enchanted items though, as spawners do make XP inevitably easier to get.

Finally, there's the issue of EULA compliance. The server was almost shut down a while back, and Fuzzlr had to remove a bunch of perks. To be fair, since /fly is back somewhat, it may have been lifted slightly, but if spawner mining does come back it might end up having to be something for all players rather than just Elite+.

I do have a couple suggestions to combat the economy thing, though, and the main one is not adding back /spawner and perhaps making all spawners drop as spider or zombie (maybe even just spider, since zombie's rarely drop iron, carrots, etc.) This would prevent the sheer amount of mob drops that flooded the economy in the past, since spider drops in particular are relatively useless and extremely common, while rotten flesh is also pretty useless.
More mobs could be added to the list at staff's discretion such as pig, sheep, cow, and chicken, since food economy is trashed already.

This reminds me of a bug a couple years back where all spawners turned into pig spawners, which could become an intentional thing.

So honestly in the end I'm a +/-. I think it's not the inherently negative thing that a lot of people think it is, but it's also not all that positive for the server. I think it's up to staff discretion at this point if they think they can implement it in a way that preserves the economy and is EULA compliant.

 

We need spawners! I payed so much money for elite just for spawners! Bring them back! +1

 

Chaos546

Well said sir. Honestly I never saw an economy for mob based drops beyond potion materials personally when spawners were a thing, so this doesn't carry enough weight to be an issue in my mind. I do like the idea of keeping certain things vanilla though: Food, special mobs, etc.

I think where the market broke was having access to to nearly endless wither skulls and other items. I do think there needs to be a balance where the player has to work for that they have, but the sheer lack of any kind of enchanted economy right now is astounding to me. I agree with you, I don't think XP will be an industry in and of its self.

As the server stands at the moment though, there is almost no ability to get good XP or villagers, villagers being the harder issue.
Not that spawners fix this entirely, but they made getting villagers viable in the past. One thing or the other needs to change.
We need some ability to create good tools and armor to drive the greater economy, without it being solely based on 12 hours of night grinding mobs in the open, going to one of 3 overcrowded and probably not free grinders on the server, and absolute random chance on an E-table.
I loved meep at one point, but the economy is SO bad at this point, that I'm considering searching for my towny experience elsewhere.

 

Yep, I think that's one of the main reasons spawners didn't come back with the reset and I agree, like I said - if spawners come back, I want them to be limited to mobs whose drops have already been devalued by the sheer uselessness or the amount currently on the server already.

I'd say this is incorrect. First of all, they already have an accepted suggestion for adding villager eggs to vote crates, which I agree with. But I wouldn't want grinders to allow the sheer abuse and ridiculousness that came with villagers before the reset. And I also disagree that it's impossible to get good XP - it may be harder than before but I was able to get a 30 level enchantment within my first day back.

I think you're looking in the wrong places. This isn't saying that spawners shouldn't be added, but I've been back on the server for a little more than a week at this point and I've already made 100k, a god silk pick, two god fortune picks, and a god silk axe, not to mention a relatively good shovel and extra pick. It's not that hard, and you can just ask around for easy grinders and places to buy books. The economy isn't bad, it's just more difficult and less ridiculously overinflated than the last one was.

TL: DR; I think a lot of what you're saying makes sense, and I think it's definitely possible and maybe even a good idea to add spawners back, but I think it needs restrictions and I think the current economy isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

 

Not really, my point is that allowing players to mine spawners will make grinders too big and too efficient (where players can get 30 levels in seconds)

By limiting grinder sizes, it becomes hard to make such an efficient grinder, making XP more valuable.

Also, I make no money from my spawners as they are for non-profit purposes and I don't care whether you use them or not. However, it looked like you needed a way to get more XP so you can get god items.

I have elite as well and it would be cool to see perks added for it but not this one.

I agree with chaos on his last two paragraphs.

 

I know she probably doesn't mind at all, but chaos546 is a girl ^.^

 

Yep, didn't feel a need to correct, but it's true, I'm female. I don't really care how people refer to me though, honestly ^.^

Like I've said, I'm actually not against adding spawners back. XP may be rarer now than before but that doesn't mean it's got a good economy or that that's a good thing, and since spawners themselves would add an economy in and of themselves, I don't think it's necessarily an inherently bad thing to add spawners. I just think that if they are, there needs to be limits to prevent mob drops and villagers from being overinflated like they were in the old economy.

Also, there's one thing I forgot to add in this previous post as a thing; the possible increase of work for staff. I know in the past, dealing with non-Elites getting spawners and more importantly finding and catching xrayers who worked around the filter led to more work for staff members, which would be another con to adding spawners back. That's really up to whether or not staff A: think they can find a way to resolve this with plugins or B: are willing to potentially take on more work caused by spawner mining.

 

ily, please don't be offended...

But i think spawner mining is a -terrible- idea.

What it does: it reduces to 0.01 the value of -any- and -all- items which can be gained (directly or indirectly) via those spawners.

Sure, you'll have 1 million raw pork, cooked pork, raw beef, cooked beef, wool, but guess what, so does everyone else. You can sell it for 0.01 each now!!! grats.

oh, btw, all those ppl who -don't- have spawners. guess what. their wool, raw beef, cooked beef, is also now worth 0.01 each.

The v-shop will be flooded and also guess what. Here comes the rotten flesh server bombs. "Wouldn't it be funny to buy 100,000 rotten flesh and lag the server," says every troll ever.

Also, guess what. Now that wool, raw meat is 99.99% free, and there is an endless supply. Guess what comes next? Endless glut of emeralds.

Emerald prices crash hard. 30-40 value?? Not a chance. more like 3-7 each now. Don't worry though, now that emeralds are basically free, there -will- be plenty of god items. Price of those will drop.

Every item which is affected by silk spawners, which can be obtained directly or indirectly by silk spawners will quickly crash to a value of 0.01 as millions of those items are placed for sell on the v-shop.

Consumable items such as god tools will maintain some value, but you won't be able to sell yours for much, because guess what, everyone else has 100's of them now.

NO.

People complain about the current economy, but it is excellent! I have made every single meeble that i have in the game (close to 1.8 million) simply by trading with other players.

I don't even play that much. It is not hard to make money.

 

Quick question - would you be more supportive if for example, all mined spawners turned into spider spawners and could not be changed? This would prevent any issues with mob drops flooding the economy, as only spider drops, which are already common enough from grinders to be valueless, are available through grinders. There's just more of them, Elite+ gets another perk, and spawner economy returns. This is something I mentioned in my previous posts and is pretty much the only case where I personally would support the return of spawner mining.

This also seems feasible, since in the past there have been issues with all mob spawners defaulting to pigs.

In my opinion, mineable spawners are something fun and unique for the server, so if its possible to do so without ruining the economy too much, why not?

Obvious disclaimer here, I don't expect nor want this, if accepted, to be a priority for the techs. There's much more interesting and important perks and things to be added.

EDIT: Also, lets be honest, the food economy is already so trashed that they're planning to add back /feed - I don't think many people are concerned about food of all grinder drops.

 

I think if all mined spawners turned into one type of spawner it would be --less-- harmful for the server, but still still harmful.

If we're considering it this way, i'd say having all spawners turn into blaze spawners would be the most ideal, because blaze grinders are inherently inefficient, and blaze rods are highly consumeable. Additionally, blazes provide more xp than most other mob types. As well, blazes only drop one type of loot (blaze rods/blaze heads) which are not tradeable with villagers.

Spiders provide string, string x 4 can be converted into wool. I'd really really not like to see the wool market crash. I don't trade in it, but it is a very robust market as wool has many uses such as making banner. I'm pretty sure wool can still be traded for emeralds as well, so that's a potential problem.

Idk, i'm much less resistant to the idea so long as it's just one type of spawner. Preferably one which can not effect the emerald market in any way. I really really don't want to go back to the Hornemans thing (where new players trade for emeralds and sell it back to the person who "owns" the villagers. That was horrible.)

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 24, 2017 ---

No way! Food market is good. I make around 4k a week selling food for 2-5 meebles each.

[Edit] well, i'm not 100% sure how much i make from food, but i do estimate it to be somewhere between 2-5k per week when i bother to list food items.

 

I'm fine with it being blaze, although that devalues fuel.

There's already plenty of spider spawners being used as grinders that provide tonnes of spider string within minutes. I don't think it's an issue. But regardless, the type of spawner doesn't really matter; I just suggested spider because it's already common as heck.

I agree, that was awful and I 100% don't want that to happen. I also don't believe it will, honestly.

Ehh. They're adding /feed, which shows that the staff really don't think it's all that good. Entire towns have stacks upon stacks of food, really not that hard to get.

 

Everyone on the internet is a 13 year old boy until proven otherwise. LOL

 

Blaze spawners is actually the best case scenario i think. (Baring in mind I'm still against the idea, but down from 100% to say 70% if it's just blaze spawners.)

If they are going to bring back spawner mining, i prefer blaze spawners only. Ok, here's reasons why:

1) You say it will devalue fuel, but fuel is already extremely easy to get (lava buckets.) If you think fuel is scarce, just head to the nether, find a lava ocean, and then just /back to and from your auto furnance til it's double chest is full of lava buckets.

2) Could we make it so that only blaze spawners are mineable? That would create enough scarcity (due to the rarity of blaze spawners in the nether) that it would be fairly self limiting. Additionally, not many meepers dare to brave the nether.

3) As i said earlier, blaze grinders (because blazes have a slow fall mechanic) are not extremely efficient. Natural guardian grinders are much more efficient, but require more construction time.

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Anyone who says xp is scarce should find a decent guardian grinder. You can make 27-30 in about five minutes, have your max e-table set up so you just turn to face it, enchant back down to 27, repeat. That's what I used to do. (@Eunomia has a great guardian grinder, maybe you all should consider either a) joining Eunomia or b) building a guardian grinder in your town or c) asking @C1aire about purchasing access rights to that guardian grinder.

Additional tip about guardian grinders. Guardians have thorns. They melt the durability of armor. You can get around this by either using a bow, or doing what i do and useing a sweeping edge sword so you only have to hit them (all) once every 30 or so seconds. As well, i switch to junk armor (Hello fire protection 4 / unb 3 failed armor enchant.)

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Since i currently do not have access to the guardian grinder (I left Eunomia to create a virtual admin chest shop (build in progress)) what i currently do for xp is either 1) mine quartz or 2) villager trading. See here's the thing. xp is valueable, so is quartz emeralds. By doing one or the other for xp I actually hit two birds with one stone and double up on my money making.

 

To put it out there, you don't need spawners for xp. /pwarp grind and /pwarp grinder each have fabulous spawners available for free. People can buy bottles o' enchanting at /pwarp vexes , /pwarp shop , /pwarp shops , and /pwarp gold . Also, enchanting doesn't take away all of your experience levels as a plugin buffs enchanting. If people want to create highly enchanted items, then the issue of not being able to mine spawners is not a block.

I do agree, on the other hand, that bringing back the ability to mine spawners would increase the number of enchanted items available, but I don't think it's needed to do so. If you want enchanted items, use these resources to buy bottles o' enchanting and use free spawners, or find someone to buy the location of a spawner from and build your own xp farm. If there's not enough of the item you want, others must feel the same and you could get lots of meebles.

 

-1 Spawner mining ruins the value of all mob drops, and through string, emeralds, and through emeralds, ebooks, and through ebooks, God items. You add spawner mining, you devalue mob drops, emeralds, ebooks, and god items; that was the exact reasoning to add it back, right?

Anyhow, spawners are still a thing considering you can get them naturally at outposts. The reason God tools are out of stock is because villagers are hard to create (especially since natural mob spawn is very buggy). If you want to help the economy, I would advise you suggest we fix natural spawns in towny, or start a movement


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