Marijuana Legalize?

A lot of the information in this article is twisted and misrepresents things. It shows the affects on adolescents and people who use massive amounts for long periods of time. No one is debating that any substance can have adverse effects on young people or people that abuse a substance. Caffeine and alcohol have bad effects on young people too but they are still legal. One of the things that the article sites to back their claims even says that there isn't a definitive link between marijuana use and income over the years. There is no point in this crucifixion of marijuana. Even if you disagree with people smoking it recreationally, it has other uses. For example, hemp based paper, fabric, plastic, fuel, and hemp seeds can make a very nutritious flour. Those are just to name a few things it can do but we aren't allowed to explore because it is a class 1 drug and anything related to it is taboo in the eyes of the government.

 

Here I go in for round three of SuperDyl vs. Legalizing Marijuana. I'll debate what has been gone over since my last comment. The bold statements are commonly presented arguments.

1. Marijuana doesn't impair daily activities: Anyone saying that they're fine from using marijuana are using a logical fallacy. Your specific experience only looks at the problem through your eyes. It's also a type of survivorship bias of the best responding because the rest are gone. Thus far, no evidence has truly shown that marijuana itself does or doesn't impair daily activities. All evidence for one side or the other are based on fallacies or bad evidence.

2. There'll be fewer drug dealers: I'd like to reference a video first. . Here we can see how drugs like marijuana end up in demand. A) dirt cheap is an overstatement, as companies will even our prices, just like how alcohol and tobacco will not be found as "dirt cheap." B) The demand for marijuana shifting to the legal market does not remove the demand at the illegal market. Drug dealers don't only sell marijuana. Also, the danger still exists of underage usage, which can come about through drug dealers. Drugs are not a market which losses demand, just increases to greater degrees.

3. Marijuana isn't a gateway drug: The question here is, how is it not!? Marijuana is used for a high, one which, as stated by @Killer2themx , people can build a tolerance to. Tolerance means a lower high which means harder drugs must eventually be used to achieve the same effect. This set of steps is what classifies a gateway drug.

4. Alcohol is worse: Yes it is. The entire argument is a logical fallacy as having a worse drug commonly available doesn't make marijuana better. The basic concept is a question of why ban the better of the two. The short answer is that the government once tried to ban alcohol and it failed, and adding more bad things isn't a good idea. If you get a giant bad stain on your shirt, unless you plan to throw the shirt away, there is absolutely no reason to intentionally stain the shirt further with little stains.

5. Marijuana has no ill effect on developed brains: It should be known here that the problems of marijuana are not its direct killing of people but marijuana's ability to create addictions and act as a gateway drug. On the full scale, marijuana has a small direct effect, but as large of a big effect as any other drug. Developed brains won't be destroyed by marijuana, but it doesn't at all make marijuana okay, as it acts as a gateway drug.

Please, reply back to this with any arguments you'd like to present. (Can flame wars/name calling also be avoided, as it adds nothing but negativity)

 

@Killer2themx A drinker is not always impaired when they drink. Red wines and stuff like that are actually healthy for the body. It is indeed a fact you cannot perform daily tasks when you are high, I'm not talking about taking 1 hit and your high. I'm talking about being high. Also the ONLY reason you smoke for recreational purposes is to get high.

@Erebus45 Smokers cry about the smoking statistics and get upset over it.
Drinkers cry about the alcohol statistics and cry over them.
Unless you actually want help on stopping it or you want to continue it you will NEVER find anything wrong with it and if Jesus himself told you what's wrong with it you'd deny it.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2017 ---

John Hawkins - 5 Reasons Marijuana Should Remain Illegal

 

When you say wines, that is like 1 glass, maybe a couple sips. Then yes, that is true. But you can still get totally wasted off wine. Depends how much you drink. Also can you show where you are getting the fact of that you cannot perform daily tasks when you are high? Do you mean when you have low tolerance? If you do, then you are somewhat right. But heavy smokers can perform FINE. I AM TELLING YOU FROM EXPERIENCE. You need to give me some sources.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2017 ---

I know plenty of people who don't move onto different drugs, but instead will just not smoke for a week to lose their tolerance. No big deal.

It doesn't make sense to not legalize weed if it isn't as bad as alcohol with your logic as well. Just thinking from a different perspective.

 

The first two parts are anecdotal. This means that though you know people that haven't gone to using other drugs, it doesn't mean it isn't a gateway drug. You need different evidence then the couple people you personally know. You have shown that people can hold themselves from the drug to lower tolerance, but it doesn't prove that most people can.

The argument I presented about how adding marijuana because it's not as bad as something we already allow was a bit rushed. Let me try again: Is alcohol bad? Is marijuana bad? Is alcohol worse then marijuana? Should we allow bad things because there are worse things? Now take the answers to those questions when looking at this "parable": You stain a shirt badly (this is alcohol) and instead of trying to fix it, you add more stains (marijuana). Why stain the shirt more? Saying that there's something bad there doesn't mean you should add more smaller problems, but that you should work against the big issues.

 

I never said you couldn't get drunk off of wine. However, a casual drinker can still perform their duties. They have a couple of drinks, go to bed and go to work the next day. They do their job completely go home and drink some more. I'm not talking about alcoholics, I have 3 alcoholic uncles, however 2 of which do drugs and smoke marijuana. The 2 that smoke marijuana are not working and are being supported by someone else. They also receive food stamps and certain government assistance. The uncle that just drinks, doesn't have a full time job but he does side jobs all the time, takes care of himself and my great grandma, he takes care of the house and does chores. He is able to help other people and doesn't act a fool. The ones who smoke marijuana can't do near as much work or near as good of a job because they do more then just drink. They are so addicted to smoking marijuana that they fake having medical issues as an excuse to smoke. I'm not saying every person is like that but most of them are. Idk if it's true but I read an article saying that you can't buy alcohol on EBT but you can buy marijuana in states like Colorado on EBT.

 

@Blue_marlin98 I'm not upset over the statistics. I even agree with most of them. Marijuana is bad for adolescents and if you abuse it. As is alcohol, prescription drugs, and caffeine. The thing is, nobody is saying, "hey let's make it legal for elementary kids to smoke weed."
That article from John Hawkins was full of fallacies and outright lies. First of all, he started out by generalizing, stereotyping, and smearing everyone who smokes pot. Second, the way Amsterdam runs things is the reason why things are going bad. It has been working out well for Colorado. Third, there is no conclusive evidence of pot use being linked to mental problems when used after the brain has finished developing. Even drugabuse.gov says the only link with pot use and psychiatric disorders is in those with pre existing genetic or other vulnerabilities. The only problems it causes is stunted brain growth in adolescents. It goes on to say "no association between marijuana use and mood and anxiety disorders [were] found." Fourth, according to the Journal of the American Medical Association, smoking marijuana is less dangerous than smoking tobacco.
Overall, I would much rather weed be legalized, regulated, and taxes by the government. It will create a lot of revenue. It will also prevent drug dealers from lacing marijuana with harder drugs to get people addicted to other things without them even knowing. Not to mention the fact that hemp has so many other uses. As I said earlier, it can be used to make a fabric that is softer and more durable than cotton, a biodegradable plastic, fuel, and many other things for much cheaper.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2017 ---

You can't use EBT to purchase weed.

 

I see your point, but alcohol will never be removed. It is so important in society today and we are still developing more laws that make alcohol consumption more safe, even though it never will be entirely.

Also you are right in some ways about marijuana being a gateway drug. I have some friends who have turned to drugs such as cocaine, but for a majority it is not an issue. That being said, we should not focus on the minority but rather the majority. Not saying I do not care about the minority, but they are not as important as the majority.

An important fact people need to realize is that when you buy from dealers who you might not know as well, they can slip other drugs in weed such as cocaine, meth, etc. These can get the person addicted to other drugs which will make the dealer more money. If weed is legalized, marijuana will be under much more attention from the government, ensuring this doesn't happen.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2017 ---

The same can be said for a casual smoker. Go home after work, smoke a joint or two then go to bed and go to work. And you are wrong when you say most of people who smoke weed are like your uncle. He sounds like he is addicted, and weed can be addictive. I have a few friends who smoke like that and I can tell you their futures are not looking good. Then again, I have MANY friends who smoke weed daily and do just fine. You need to do more research.

 

Lol what a stupid post your uncles are nothing but lazy, nothing to do with the gringo

 

Speaking of biblical characters.. there is a particular quote from the bible you might find interesting:

"Behold I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it."
-God

If someone believes in Christianity shouldn't they agree that God himself gave us all seed bearing plants, and that those plants are inherently divine. Why would they try to restrict them? Is Government > God to Christians?

 

My cousin uses weed, he works in a sales department, and hes noticed he sells stuff way more when hes high. I think it affects different people differently.

 

@Killer2them A lot of studies show that weed isn't a gateway drug. While most hard users admit to starting with weed, that is only a minority of weed smokers that move to harder stuff. What a lot of people believe is that it is a correlation =/= causation. What is more of a deciding factor on using hard drugs is how early on you start smoking. Kids who start smoking in middle school are more like to use hard drugs than people at 18 and 21 who start smoking. That statistics for that are even worse for kids who drink alcohol. Genetics and environment have more of an influence.

 

Very true man. I think it is also a little that people in the drugs scene will be open to harder drugs. I have VERY FEW friends who moved on to harder drugs past weed. Cocaine is interesting to try, but I have no interest in anything else at all.

 

my best friend smokes weed
and she's one of the most hardworking and independent people i've ever seen
she has a job and gets all her schoolwork done, in the national honor society.
she only smokes if she is absolutely sure that she has nothing to do.

 

Evidence is contradictory. Many initial studies found it to be a gateway drug while studies now a days find it to be an exit drug. Hard to say which but from my own opinion, those initial studies were done in a time with less tool for studying the subject and a huge social stigma that created a targeted bias. No one really knows, but I find the gateway argument to be unconvincing.

This whole point is riddled with problems. First sentence is a fallacy. . The next two don't really have to do with a gateway drug, it has to do with the idea of the forbidden fruit. The quote goes "The forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest". But, this isn't directly correlated to it being a gateway drug. Chicago passed a law in 2006 banning the sale and consumption of foire gras. What happened was there were underground cullinary meetings where rich people would dine and eat foire gras illegally. They found that these people were excited that they were doing something illegal, almost as if the naughtiness of breaking the law excited them. That is the idea behind the forbidden fruit. To your point, you would have to make the assumption that these people have a higher propensity to break the law and commit larger scale crimes. Hard to make that claim.

Yes, it is illegal to attempt to overdose on drugs if you do it intentionally. Also, that entire situation makes no sense. People who do drugs for a high don't try to overdose. That is illogical. If they try to overdose, then that's suicide and that is illegal. And you can't punish a dead person, so..... what? Could you clear up exactly what this is supposed to prove?

Well, both of the things you listed are chemically addictive. Weed is not chemically addictive. So, I don't think that many will argue that it will be decreased in useage if it is legalized, but the "forbidden fruit effect" will be lost.

No real evidence of that. More of a slippery slope fallacy than anything. Gateway drug is still a refutable point.

 

4.) When you are high, you can't do work. You can't perform daily functions. Idc if it causes cancer. Cigarettes cause cancer. I care about what it does to you NOW not in the future.
My mate punches numerous cones and performs daily functions just fine while cooked.

With a lot of your statements in debate threads I wouldn't.

 

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I also really hate that I'm being told by someone who doesn't smoke what I can and can't do. I go to my internship high. I cook high. I do homework and get good grades on em high, but the guy who hasn't smoke is going to tell me I can't do any of that. Smh. The amount of things I do while completely roasted is incredible. I should get a medal.

 

I was setting up a nice argument with lots of quotes, but it got lost, so I'll try again! These ideas are from the arguments after my last post.

I'll start with arguments I agree with thus far:

*Marijuana is bad for undeveloped brains but evidence shows that marijuana doesn't harm developed brains.
*Legalizing marijuana isn't meant to be sold to kids either (not that I would think anyone to do that).
*Marijuana is less dangerous than tobacco.
*Lacing drugs would be lower as the FDA would have a hand in regulations.
*Hemp would be easier to use in products.
*Alcohol is unlikely to be removed from legal use until some time after tobacco is. It will be a while if it does.
*Some use of the drug in circumstances of seeing forbidden as exciting will decrease with legalization.
*People overdose pharmaceutical drugs for highs, not drugs such as marijuana.
*Research still needs to be done more on marijuana to find if it's a gateway drug.


Here are my arguments to discussed issues:

*We have some anecdotal fallacies of specific people, but they also do reveal that people can become very addicted, even if others can control themselves. This shows a nature similar to alcohol, where it can be addicting enough to damage lives, but also possible to be used with self control.
* The people becoming addicted to legalized marijuana wouldn't just include who would now use it, but would include new people. Seeing at as legal makes it look safe. The government cannot restrict a newly legalized drug as much as tobacco when legalizing it because public opinion would be against them. Also, people know that cigarettes are bad, and marijuana producers would use this to bring in new consumers by calling it safer, much like with e-cigarettes. More people using marijuana would allow for more addictions. This hurts more people then not legalizing marijuana by creating more addictions.
*The FDA will not be perfect at regulating marijuana, as it is already overworked. Problems in the beginning could include bad regulations, low supply with high costs, or slow starts.
*Saying that a minority of the drug's users move to harder drugs does not disprove a correlation that marijuana usage can lead to usage of worse drugs. As shown before, legalizing marijuana would probably increase its use, meaning more addictions and usage of harder drugs then currently used.
*If legalized, marijuana still has that sense of forbidden by the younger populations, who already do things forbidden such as use alcohol, tobacco, or marijuana. Also, having it available legally would make people not looking to illegally use Mari start using marijuana.
*The statement comparing legality, marijuana, and drug overdoses was to prove that people still take drugs for the point of getting a euphoria, instead of just because it's illegal.
*Marijuana is chemically addicting: Is marijuana addictive? . About 9% of adults who tsk marijuana end up with dependency (early addiction which doesn't interfere with daily life) while many end up with full addictions.
*"Because marijuana impairs short-term memory and judgment and distorts perception, it can impair performance in school or at work and make it dangerous to drive. It also affects brain systems that are still maturing through young adulthood, so regular use by teens may have negative and long-lasting effects on their cognitive development, putting them at a competitive disadvantage and possibly interfering with their well-being in other ways. Also, contrary to popular belief, marijuana can be addictive, and its use during adolescence may make other forms of problem use or addiction more likely." from Letter From the Director .
*Evidence does show that marijuana either is a gateway drug or that it is used more by those likely to use harder drugs. Either way, it's "safer" status could become a boost which gets more people's Tom start drugs, making more people likely to start drug sales who would go on, but would have never started if the drug store hadn't been advertise drugs as such. (A little bit much like a slippery slope).
*Evidence shows that marijuana mostly affects short term memory and long term brain functions.

Questions:

*What has Amsterdam done to "mess up"?
*In what ways is Colorado doing better now then the would have without legalized marijuana?
*Where does it say that overdosing on pharmaceuticals is illegal?

My favorite question, as it is about religion:

Answers:
*God made all plants: Yes
*Plants are inheritly divine: I guess. We should all be grateful and understand how amazing these things are.
*Why restrict: God gave agency or free will. I can tie you to a chair and you still can make choices. We creat government to protect ourselves and those around us, but people can still make their own choices, they just don't choose their consequences.
*Government is second to God, or the Israelites would have never left Egypt.
*Though God made all, it doesn't mean all was made for any specific use people choose them to be for. Poisons would not make a good food, a random bear is no pet, and the chemicals in some plants can often be harmful to bodies.


Please ask me questions and refute points! This debate sure is interesting, and we'll eventually find a good answer by the end! Also, I liked this link: Letter From the Director . If I missed anything, let me know!

 

So what if marijuana is bad? the government shouldn't stop me from being stupid?

 

The point is that when you do stupid things, alot of the time it ends up involving many Americans. Legalizing Marijuana would bring on many more people to smoke it. Many (not all) sit home on welfare, if they live in the other 37 states who do not require drug testing. If they do actually work a job, it wouldn't get done as good as the person who isn't smoking marijuana would do and they typically work jobs that pay closer to minimum wage.

This isn't about how it is going to effect you personally but how it will effect society. Tobacco products do not effect society as a whole. Sure it can cause cancer when you are over the age of 60 most likely and it doesn't do anything to your brain. Cigarettes? Sure they put off second hand smoke but there are places where you can't smoke, so it helps the non smokers stay away from the smokers (cigarettes).

My uncles are indeed lazy, but its not a stupid argument. My point was, they sit home collecting welfare while smoking marijuana. Who pays for their groceries? AMERICANS! Who pays for their medical bills? AMERICANS! Who pays for their house? AMERICANS! yet they are at home smoking Marijuana. Someone who collects any type of government assistance should not be doing anything drugs/ drinking alcohol.

Some people can perform daily tasks while smoking. However, the majority of smokers who do smoke Marijuana can not.