Abortion

Because genetic testing is 100% accurate, right? We've cured Cancer, right? It's only 2017. Be realistic.

Take this example:

I don't really need the credibility of it proved, because I myself have had similar encounters with other mothers and fathers myself, and it is not uncommon.

 

Right, which is exactly the reason why I'd never consider abortion for my children, but don't seek to impose that on others.

 

Okay @Deinen you are pro-choice obviously. Even though you wouldn't have one personally (when I say you I mean like your spouse, gf etc)
Do you at least believe the law should be: The man has a say and the woman can't abort the child without his approval? How do you feel about that situation and how do you think we can fix some issues to allow the dad to have more say in these types of situations?

 

I think the issue is very complicated.

In a personal situation, if my wife and I were expecting a child and she, without my consent, went and had an abortion, the damage that would cause between us would be irreparable. But I come from a position where I would be around every day for my child and be an active part in her life raising her. I expect consent because I equally raise that child.

But what about if a man and woman are divorced/separated and the man is expected to have no active role? Should he have consent before? I wouldn't think so.

Or what about a one night stand where the man has no idea he fathered a child and would never see him? Would he get pro-active consent?

 

Great points! I completely get where you are coming from.... however there is a "but!" in there now lol, SO:

Agreed 100%

Also agree 100% and you are lucky to be able to be very active in the childs life, good for you! Sadly, some people leave town for work and do not have that say 100%.
Can you think of any ways to try and protect the fathers rights to that unborn child (fetus) in the attempt of the mother trying to have an abortion without consent of the father? Say the father is a truck driver, gets his wife pregnant and she aborts the child while he is gone for the week. How can we stop more moms from getting an abortion without the fathers permission/say?

That is when the state comes in. They help you pay for the child to raise it in a healthy home and you can fight for child support and even if the dad wants no role in the life of the child he would be forced to pay child support and if he didn't then he would go to jail/prison.

Okay this can go a bunch of different ways, ill use the 4 most common:
1.) Find the father and force him to help.
2.)Raise the child on your own.
3.) Adoption is an option!
4.) Don't have a 1 night stand?

Thoughts?

 

Lol. So the solution is abortion, still? There's a time and place for everything. Having a kid belongs within a solid marriage. If you choose to have a kid without taking responsibility for raising him/her, you should be dealing with the "burden" of raising said kid. You only run into these problems if said kid has no mommy and no daddy to support him. There should not be a "last resort," so to speak, in aborting it. We aren't animals that only know to reproduce, we are humans with an intellect and a will. The problem is not getting rid of said kids, it is choosing to be responsible and not running into said problems in the first place (and this basically only happens 100% for sure within abstinence).

Rape is obviously complicated, but isn't what we are talking about here.

 

Simply put; I don't have the answers myself. This is further reason why I am comfortable taking a personal position and living it, but not a public position in which people should abide by.

 

In the US at least, court-ordered child support is a thing, and courts have the authority to garnish wages to pay child support debts. Of course deadbeat fathers who don't want to take responsibility for their kids can hide money or whatever, but this isn't the case for most fathers.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2017 ---

To be completely fair, Ceausescu thought that increased population would lead to macroeconomic growth and an increase in the national labor force, so he quite literally forced people to make kids. If I remember correctly, he levied a tax against childless couples, paid money to families per child, and pursued legislative action against couples who didn't want kids.

As a result of these benefits, and the wane of Soviet influence in Eastern Europe, Romania's economy declined, and the benefits were no longer sustainable. As industry and jobs declined, people started becoming too poor to support the large families that Ceausescu forced upon them, which led to the orphanages.

TLR, this issue is a lot more complex than Romania simply banning abortions--it actually involves a huge amount of government ineptitude. And Ceausescu is a **** who deserves to burn in hell.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017 ---

To clarify, do you mean that you never considered aborting your children, or that you would never consider allowing your children to have an abortion?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017 ---

tbf, the AIDS problem is a lot more complex than people choosing to have sex and passing on HIV. HIV/AIDS can be transmitted from mother to child, rape is a huge issue in many parts of Africa, and HIV/AIDS awareness and education is still substandard in many rural communities.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017 ---

Have you been to prison? How do you know prisons are nice? They're already chronically underfunded.

Besides, you want prisoners to be released and become productive members of society. Having prisoners sit in a cell, eat nothing but bread and water, and stare at a blank wall all day is conducive to mental illness, which increases the risk of recidivism, further increasing the taxpayer cost.

Also, much of the costs of running prisons is actually caused by benefits (healthcare, pensions, etc.) to prison workers, not prisoners themselves. The food in prisons is substandard, as is the infrastructure, healthcare, etc.

 

I wouldn't do it. If my children are adults, I have no say. If my children are still minors - Priority is murdering the person who impregnated them.

 

Understood. As @sicklynerd made mention of having a Mommy and a Daddy (not to bring up an entire other debate). Single motherhood (and single parenthood in general) isn't good on children. When you raise a child with a Mommy and a Daddy together as one that child (in most cases) raises a better child then say a Single mother or father. The crime rate goes up for children raised in single parent homes, you typically see more fighting in a single parent home, you'll see the kid bossing around the parent, grades go down for children raise in a single parent environment, I could go on and on about the topic but it all does lead into this thread topic. Having children is not something to mess around with (okay, I know i'm making it seem like drugs but bare with me). I'm going to bring religion into this really quickly but I promise it's not based on the entire comment it self. So, Christians believe that you shouldn't have pre-marrital sex, right? That is because you should not have children unless you are in a stable home with a Mommy and Daddy. You typically make sure the person you have sex with is going to be the person you spend the rest of your life with. Hence having sex (the main cause of which is to reproduce).

Now, that being said. Some are going to ask "What if daddy runs away"?
A.) If he runs away while you are pregnant you can find a father figure before birth.
B.) If he runs away while you are pregnant you can put the child up for adoption.
C.)You can go to the state and file for child support, if the father refuses to pay it. He will go to jail and the state will pay for it.
D.)This goes against everything I say but I would rather you raise the child as a single parent then kill it. Government assistance is always an option.

What if Daddy or Mommy dies after the baby is born?
A.) This also goes against my view on single parenthood but raise the child. If you want what is best for the child you should give him/her to another family but I would never expect a mother/father to give up their child, especially if they can raise him.
B.) Government assistance, get another job, work weekends? Do whatever you can do bring home the bacon.

A lot of single parents or parents in general who say "they can't afford their child". It is indeed false. They may/may not be able to afford the child and continue living the lifestyle that they live at the moment. With some major changes they can certainly take care of the child.

Example: Go to the trailer parks / hood / ghetto areas. They are all pretty much poor, right? How many of them have iPhones? Televisions? Nice shoes? Gold teeth/ chains? Let alone the fact they sit outside their homes and smoke dope, drink alcohol and eat steak.

If they gave up that stuff, they could afford the child. Many brilliant people and many people who are wealthy today came from poor backgrounds.

 

Do you know how devastating this would be to the US economy?

Many major cities in the US, including Los Angeles, San Francisco, Denver, Atlanta, Chicago, New Orleans, Boston, NYC, Portland, Seattle, Austin, Dallas, and Houston are (by conventional definitions) sanctuary cities. Withholding federal funding to all these cities would destroy the economy.

 

Do you know what a sanctuary city is? This certainly wouldn't destroy the economy lol anyway, thats a topic for another thread. We do not need to clog up this one with that topic. If you would like to talk about it, please make another thread on the subject.

 

From the World Bank: "Almost without exception, studies find either no significant impact or a significant negative impact of transfers on temptation goods. In the only (two, non-experimental) studies with positive significant impacts, the magnitude is small."

Source

List of sanctuary cities

 

Okay I do not think you understand what I am saying. If you make a very small amount of money, then you should not be spending money on alcohol, drugs (non prescribed) and tobacco products. These products can be very expensive.

Wow you found a list of them. Please make another thread if you want me to explain to you all about it and put my opinion in on the matter. Until then, im going to stop commenting on this topic as it was 1 example on how to save money on certain things and how we can put more money into the well being of adopted children and children who are in low-income homes.

 

I do not think you understand my point.

My point is that welfare benefits do not cause an uptick in consumer good purchases as you seemed to insinuate here:

 

That is not at all what I am saying. Im saying if you live within your means and budget properly you have more of a chance of taking care of your child and raising them in a better home. Dont waste money, use it wisely.

 

I need to go and do something but here's this if you want to read through it; it provides some data as to the spending habits of the poor compared to the rich.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/consumer-expenditures/2015/pdf/home.pdf

 

Its still a being even if its not a child yet.

funny how you all attacked bluemarlin for saying this.

 

So is a cow, or chicken.

Not on the topic of abortion, which is mostly an opinion debate. If you're talking about the other threads where there is a litany of facts and reality and he opts to spew unfounded nonsense. (Remember, he said Clinton was not against Sharia Law) I absolutely attacked that ignorance because you cannot let that kind of stupidity root and fester.