President Trump

I don't think your source helps your argument sir. Maybe you should read it until you understand what it is saying, please read it one more time. Carefully this time also look up Judge Anthony Trenga, hmm turns out President Trumps travel "ban" isn't unlawful after all

 

The two words "Muslim Ban" aren't in the travel ban, and no I didn't struggle finding it because I have read it before. Happy? May I ask why you are not considering Trumps direct quotes about banning Muslims? Its not like it is irrelevant.

 

I never said it was irrelevant, I just want to clarify that no where in the exectutive order does it say the words "Muslim Ban" therefore it is not a Muslim ban. I just want to make sure we are all on the same page.

 

So, the GOP has been complaining for 7 years about the ACA and voted to repeal it over 50 times. When they not only get the chance to actually repeal it, but completely control the House, Senate and White House, they fail spectacularly and give up passing health care completely.

The funny thing is the house wasn't expected to even be a fight. I thought Trump was such a great deal maker, why couldn't he close when his party controlled every aspect of passing laws?

It's like the kid who has whined to play baseball with you and your friends but when you finally give them the chance they strike out and go home crying.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2017 ---

Except what you are doing is willfully closing your eyes and then saying "What?! I don't see anything there!"

You are willfully ignoring the words Trump and his advisors have used in order to so narrowly try to defend the action. It's like if I claim for 4 weeks I'm going to burn my neighbors house down but when I take action I only burned a few spots in his yard. It's irrational to say "Nope! Burning down his house wasn't my intention, see no burn marks on the house!"

The source is referring to shortly after the Supreme Court made gay marriage lawful throughout the country. There was this pompous county clerk named Kim Davis and she refused to do her job as a duly elected official. Refusing a judge's order to do her job, and issue marriage cerificates, she refused the order in which she was then found in contempt of court and jailed.

Mike Huckabee visited her in support and said in reference to the SC's ruling.

"I respect the courts, but the Supreme Court is only that -- the supreme of the courts. It is not the supreme being. It cannot overrule God," he said. "When it comes to prayer, when it comes to life, and when it comes to the sanctity of marriage, the court cannot change what God has created."

This was one of a few times where he alluded that the Supreme Court was not the highest authority in the land, when it came to them ruling on gay marriage, which is simply untrue and downright dangerous. I posted this article in reference to your comment.

The gist is, I'm more afraid of crazy ass christians trying to subvert the rule of law rather than some group that encompasses less than %1 of our population. Maybe the issue is religion, and if one thinks their religious rules supercede our country's laws, then maybe we should begin deporting them somewhere else.

As far as the Judge, he ruled it was justified but the order itself is still halted. This means it will likely go to the Supreme Court which is currently 4-4. This could be over quickly if the Republicans were true to their word, as they said the people should decide the next justice, and they did, judging by the popular vote overwhelmingly go to the Democrats, and Garland.

 

@Deinen Obamacare is failing, 27 states are already starting to do away with it, I believe North Carolina (I might be wrong) but I think North Carolina only has 1 office building selling that insurance plan. The courts don't want to approve it so we will let Obamacare fail and then see who gets blamed for it? I'm sure it'll be Trumps fault.

I can say I'm going to make it that but the executive order says opposite. I'm not denying the fact that he didn't say "Muslim Ban" in the primaries but he didn't follow threw with that, he changed it to a foreign terrorism travel "freeze" at this point you can't even call it a ban because it's only 4 months. Your house example has nothing to do with this, that's completely different.

Gay marriage, well we can say America was not founded on Christian values and I will stick by this. If a gay couple wants to get married that is fine. I'm fine with them getting married. However, do not take 1 persons right away to give someone else theirs. If a judge does not want to marry a gay couple that is their right. They can simply go to another judge. To discipline or fire a judge for rejecting the marriage of a gay couple is ridiculous! It is their religious freedom and right now to marry them. If it's the gay couples right to get married, then it's a judges religious right not to marry them. Society as a whole will fail when you take someone's right away to give it to someone else. I will stand by that until the day I die. I don't care if Donald Trump himself disagrees with me, I will stand by that forever.

 

The GOP had seven years to come up with a replacement and the one they came up with was complete crap which is why it wouldn't pass. But still, is it silly to expect Congress to do it's job and fix the issues facing the current health plan, I would think not. I do know Obamacare is better than it was before without it, when we still dealt with exponentially increasing health plan rates but also had to deal with pre-existing conditions and insurance agencies scouring medical histories for any excuse to drop someone instead of paying.

I'm not quite sure what the courts have to do with anything regarding health care, but I know Trump promised to replace Obamacare with something that was better and he's failed to do so - So it is his party's fault and his fault - Because they are in power.

It's not completely different because it follows the same logic. When you talk about doing something then suddenly do things that follow in the footsteps of doing exactly what you said, it's not a big leap of assumption to assume you're doing what you're talking about. Even his name is a misnomer because there has been no terrorist attacks originating from those countries, we would have included Saudi Arabia, to start, if it was about terrorism.

Actually, we can say that America was founded on Christian examples, in fact, that was the entire premise for most of the 13 colonies.

A judge's religious freedom has nothing to do with his duty as an elected official. Why should I, an America Citizen, have to go to another Judge when that Judge should do the job their bosses (I, as a citizen) want them to do. A judge can exercise his religion and religious freedoms on a personal level, not by neglecting their oath of office, which is to uphold the laws of our country, not his fairytale belief.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2017 ---

...

Wait, are you saying that you are in support for religious followers to force their beliefs on others, even above the laws and Constitution of the United States of America?

The Supreme Court ruled same-sex marriage was law of the land.

A judge refusing to do so is someone putting forcing their religious laws on others, above the laws and Constitution of the United States of America.

Isn't that why Sharia law is bad?

 

Obamacare is a disaster and it will fail. The idea Obama had was a great idea, I believe that's why he got elected for the first time. He failed miserably with it. The GOP did not have 7 years they had all of 6 months if that.

Trump fought for his health care, it is not his fault but the people who disagreed with him. You cannot blame Trump himself because if it was only Trumps decision then it would be here.

You cannot call it a Muslim Ban if it does not ban Muslims in the Executive order. Me calling this a Muslim ban is like reading a history book and saying that World War 2 was not a World War. You cant do that. Call it a Muslim Ban as cnn does and you can look like an idiot. You have yet to tell me where in the executive order that it bans Muslims. Until you do that, its not a Muslim ban.

Christian values? yes. Christianity no, if we were a Christian country and only a Christian country then we would not have religious freedom. Islamic countries were founded on the Muslim religion, that's why if you aren't Muslim in their country, they kill you. America does not do that.
The law itself is stupid. To make it equal for gay people to get married as the traditional way of getting married is ridiculous. You should not be forcing someone to marry a gay couple, it goes against their religious freedom. Again, taking away someones right to give to someone else.

1.) I am not pushing my religion on anyone.
2.) I do not want the government to force religion on anyone.
3.) I do not agree with the supreme court ruling on same sex marriage.
4.)Sharia Law is bad, I do not think a religious law should override the Constitution. Muslims want to be treated as Muslims in America, wanting their own court system, wanting to be treated the way they would be in their country... If they want to get rid of their country, they want a better life in America then why the hell would they want to bring their country and its values into America? Why not just stay in their own country?

The problem these days, since Obama became president, everyone gets offended over everything. How does a rainbow represent gay marriage? A rainbow is gods promise to never flood the Earth again? Can I say I'm offended that Gay people took my gods promise and turned it into something my god is against? No I cant, because its offends me and not the rest of the country.
Maybe it offends the judge and his/her job title. Maybe that judge started working before they made gay marriage a "law" or "right".
Do you see what I am saying here?

 

I mean, time will tell. It's pointless discussing the fate when we don't know. It's certainly not perfect as-is.

Trump couldn't make a deal with his own party while they controlled both houses and the white house? I thought his claim to fame was his mastery of making deals? Being the President, he's the leader of his party, the party he failed to lead.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, where I look at rhetoric and context you blind yourself to whatever runs contrary to your worldview.

^ This was your original quote. This is why you're wrong.

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1. Virginia

Official Religion: Anglican/Church of England
Original Charter Date: Apr. 10,1606
Full text of The First Charter of Virginia (PDF) 15.5K
Ended Support: 1830
"Every Person should go to church, Sundays and Holidays, or lye Neck and Heels that Night, and be a Slave to the Colony the following Week; for the second Offence, he should be a Slave for a Month; and for the third, a Year and a Day."


Governor Argall's Decree
1617

"That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore, all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other."


Virginia Declaration of Rights
1776

"Section I. The opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency will make his opinions the rule of judgment, and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own...

Section II. We the General Assembly of Virginia do enact that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."


Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom
Jan. 16, 1786

"No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested or burthened, in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief: but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge or affect their civil capacities.

And the legislature shall not prescribe any religious test whatsoever; nor confer any peculiar privileges or advantages on any one sect or denomination; nor pass any law requiring or authorizing any religious society, or the people of any district within this commonwealth to levy on themselves or others any tax for the erection or repair of any house for public worship or for the support of any church or ministry, but it shall be left free to every person to select his religious instructor, and make for his support such private contract as he shall please."


Virginia Constitution
1830
Charter of the Dutch West India Company (PDF) 22.8K
Ended Support: 1846
"The Dutch Colony of the seventeenth century was officially intolerantly Protestant but was, as has been noted, in practice tolerant and fair to people of other faiths who dwelt within New Netherland.

When the English took the province from the Dutch in 1664, they granted full religious toleration to the other forms of Protestantism, and preserved the property rights of the Dutch Reformed Church, while recognizing its discipline.

In 1697, although the Anglican Church was never formally established in the Province of New York, Trinity Church was founded in the City of New York by royal charter, and received many civil privileges and the munificent grants of land which are the source of its present great wealth."


New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia

​

"THAT Noe person or persons which professe ffaith in God by Jesus Christ Shall at any time be any wayes molested punished disquieted or called in Question for any Difference in opinion or Matter of Religious Concernment"


New York Charter of Liberties and Privileges
1683

"Article XXXVIII. And whereas we are required, by the benevolent principles of the rational liberty, not only to expel civil tyranny, but also to guard against that spiritual oppression and intolerance wherewith the bigotry and ambition of weak and wicked priests and princes have scourged mankind, this convention doth further, in the name and by the authority of the good people of this state, ordain, determine, and desire, that the free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall be forever hereafter be allowed, within this state, to all mankind: PROVIDED That the liberty of conscience, hereby granted, shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of this state.

Article XXXIX. And whereas the ministers of the gospel are, by their profession, dedicated to the service of God and the care of souls, and ought not to be diverted from the great duties of their function, therefore, no minister of the gospel, or priest of any denomination whatsoever, shall, at any time hereafter, under and preference or description whatever, be eligible to, or capable of holding, any civil or military office or place within this state."


New York Constitution
1777

The New York Constitution of 1846 ended all restrictions against religious officials from holding office or being in the military.


New York Constitution
1846
The Charter of Massachusetts Bay (PDF) 29.1K
Ended Support: 1833
"Like many who arrived on these shores in the 17th century, the Puritans of Massachusetts Bay came to America seeking religious freedom… The freedom they sought, however, was for themselves and not for others. The Puritans felt called by God to establish 'new Israel,' a holy commonwealth based on a covenant between God and themselves as the people of God. Though there were separate areas of authority for church and state in Puritan Massachusetts, all laws of the community were to be grounded in God's law and all citizens were expected to uphold the divine covenant…

Very early in the Massachusetts experiment, dissenters arose to challenge the Puritan vision of a holy society. The first dissenter, Roger Williams (c.1603-1683), was himself a Puritan minister but with a very different vision of God's plan for human society. Williams argued that God had not given divine sanction to the Puritan colony. In his view, the civil authorities of Massachusetts had no authority to involve themselves in matters of faith. The true church, according to Williams, was a voluntary association of God's elect. Any state involvement in the worship or God, therefore, was contrary to the divine will and inevitably led to the defilement of the church…

Banished from Massachusetts in 1635, Roger Williams founded Rhode Island, the first colony with no established church and the first society in America to grant liberty of conscience to everyone."


First Amendment Center

​

"Article II. It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly and at stated seasons, to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience, or for his religious profession or sentiments. provided he doth not disturb the public peace or obstruct others in their religious worship.

Article III. And every denomination of Christians, demeaning themselves peaceably and as good subjects of the commonwealth, shall be equally under the protection of the law; and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law.

Chapter VI. Article I. Any person chosen governor, lieutenant-governor, councillor, senator, or representative, and accepting the trust, shall, before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, make and subscribe the following declaration, viz:


'I _______, do declare that I believe the Christian religion...'"

Massachusetts Constitution
1780

"[A]ll religious sects and denominations, demeaning themselves peaceably, and as good citizens of the commonwealth, shall be equally under the protection of the law; and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law."


Massachusetts Constitution, Article XI
1833
The Charter of Maryland (PDF) 22.6K
Ended Support: 1867
"Article XXXIII. That, as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to him; all persons, professing the Christian religion, are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate on account of his religious persuasion or profession, or for his religious practice; unless, under colour of religion, any man shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others, in their natural, civil, or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain any particular place of worship, or any particular ministry; yet the Legislature may, in their discretion, lay a general and equal tax for the support of the Christian religion; leaving to each individual the power of appointing the payment over of the money, collected from him, to the support of any particular place of worship or minister, or for the benefit of the poor of his own denomination, or the poor in general of any particular county: but the churches, chapels, globes, and all other property now belonging to the church of England, ought to remain to the church of England forever...

Article XXXV. That no other test or qualification ought to be required, on admission to any office of trust or profit, than such oath of support and fidelity to this State, and such oath of office, as shall be directed by this Convention or the Legislature of this State, and a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion."


Maryland State Constitution
1776

All religious requirements were eliminated in the constitution of 1867.


Maryland State Constitution
1867
The Fundamental Orders of Connecticut (PDF) 10.6K
Ended Support: 1818
"[O]ur said people, Inhabitants there, may bee soe religiously, peaceably and civilly Governed as their good life and orderly Conversacon may wynn and invite the Natives of the Country to the knowledge and obedience of the onely true God and Saviour of mankind, and the Christian faith, which in our Royall intencons and the Adventurers free profession is the onely and principall end of this Plantacon."


Connecticut Colony Charter
1662

"Article I. Section 3. The exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be free to all persons in this State, provided that the right hereby declared and established shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or to justify practices inconsistent with the peace and safety of the State.

Article I. Section 4. No preference shall be given by law to any Christian sect or mode of worship.

Article VII. Section 1. It being the duty of all men to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the Universe, and their right to render that worship in the mode most consistent with the dictates or their consciences, no person shall by law be compelled to join or support, nor be classed with, or associated to, any congregation, church, or religious association; but every person now belonging to such congregation, church, or religious association, shall remain a member thereof until he shall have separated himself therefrom, in the manner hereinafter provided. And each and every society or denomination of Christians in this State shall have and enjoy the same and equal powers, rights, and privileges; and shall have power and authority support and maintain the ministers or teachers of their respective denominations, and to build and repair houses for public worship by a tax on the members of any such society only, to be laid by a major vote of the legal voters assembled at any society meeting, warned and held according to law, or in any other manner."


Connecticut Constitution
1818
Agreement of the Settlers at Exeter in New Hampshire (PDF) 5.08K
Ended Support: 1877
"Article III. When men enter into a State of society they surrender up some of their natural rights to that society, in order to ensure the protection of others...

Article IV. Among the natural rights, some are in their very nature unalienable, because no equivalent can be given or received for them. Of this kind are the RIGHTS OF CONSCIENCE...

Article V. Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship GOD according to the dictates of his own conscience and reason; and no person shall be hurt, molested, or restrained in is person, liberty, or estate for worshipping God in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience, or for his religious profession, sentiments, or persuasion; provided he doth not disturb the public peace or disturb others in their religious worship.

Senate. Provided, nevertheless, That no person shall be capable of being elected a senator who is not of the Protestant religion...

House of Representatives. Every member of the house of representatives... shall be of the Protestant religion...

President. [H]e shall be of the Protestant religion."


New Hampshire Constitution
1784

"And be it further enacted, that each religious sect or denomination of Christians in this State may associate and form societies, may admit members, may establish rules and bylaws for their regulation and government, and shall have all the corporate powers which may be necessary to assess and raise money by taxes upon the polls and ratable estate of the members of such associations, and to collect and appropriate the same for the purpose of building and repairing houses of public worship, and for the support of the ministry; and the assessors and collectors of such associations shall have the same powers in assessing and collecting, and shall be liable to the same penalties as similar town officers have and are liable to--Provided that no person shall be compelled to join or support, or be classed with, or associated to any congregation, church or religious society without his express consent first had and obtain--Provided also, if any person shall choose to separate himself from such society, or association to which he may belong, and shall leave a written notice thereof with the clerk of such society or association, he shall thereupon be no longer liable for any future expenses which may be incurred by said society or association--Provided also, that no association or society shall exercise the powers herein granted until it shall have assumed a name and stile by which such society may be known and distinguished in law, and shall have recorded the same in a book of records to be kept by the clerk of said Society, and shall have published the same in some newspaper in the County where such society may be formed if any be printed therein, and if not then in some paper published in some adjoining County."


The Toleration Act, Section 3D
1819

"House of Representatives. Article 14. Amended 1877 deleting requirement that representatives be Protestants.

Senate. Article 29. Amended l877 deleting requirements that senators be Protestant."


New Hampshire Constitution
1990
Patent for Providence Plantations (PDF) 7.56K
Ended Support: 1842
"That [the inhabitants], pursueing, with peaceable and loyall minces, their sober, serious and religious intentions, of goalie edifieing themselves, and one another, in the holy Christian faith and worship, as they werepersuaded; together with the gaining over and conversion of the poor ignorant Indian natives, in thoseparts of America, to the sincere profession and obedience of the same faith and worship...

true pietye rightly grounded upon gospell principles, will give the best and greatest security to sovereignetye, and will lay in the hearts of men the strongest obligations to true loyaltye: Now know bee, that wee beinge willinge to encourage the hopefull undertakeinge of oure sayd lovall and loveinge subjects, and to secure them in the free exercise and enjovment of all theire civill and religious rights, appertaining to them, as our loveing subjects; and to preserve unto them that libertye, in the true Christian ffaith and worshipp of God...

That our royall will and pleasure is, that noe person within the sayd colonye, at any tyme hereafter, shall bee any wise molested, punished, disquieted, or called in question, for any differences in opinione in matters of religion, and doe not actually disturb the civill peace of our sayd colony; but that all and everye person and persons may, from tyme to tyme, and at all tymes hereafter, freelye and fullye have and enjoye his and theire owne judgments and consciences, in matters of religious concernments...

and to direct, rule, order and dispose of, all other matters and things, and particularly that which relates to the makinge of purchases of the native Indians, as to them shall seeme meete; wherebv oure sayd people and inhabitants, in the sayd Plantationes, may be soe religiously, peaceably and civilly governed, as that, by theire good life and orderlie conversations, they may win and invite the native Indians of the countrie to the knowledge and obedience of the onlie true God, and Saviour of mankinde..."


Charter of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations
July 15, 1663

"Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free; and all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness; and whereas a principal object of our venerable ancestors, in their migration to this country and their settlement of this state, was, as they expressed it, to hold forth a lively experiment that a flourishing civil state may stand and be best maintained with full liberty in religious concernments; we, therefore, declare that no person shall be compelled to frequent or to support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatever, except in fulfillment of such person's voluntary contract; nor enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in body or goods; nor disqualified from holding any office; nor otherwise suffer on account of such person's religious belief; and that every person shall be free to worship God according to the dictates of such person's conscience, and to profess and by argument to maintain such person's opinion in matters of religion; and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect the civil capacity of any person."


Rhode Island Constitution, Article I, Section 3
1842
Charter of Georgia (PDF) 24.2K
Ended Support: 1798
"Article VI. [R]epresentatives... shall be of the Protestant religion...

Article LVI. All persons whatever shall have the free exercise of their religion; provided it be not repugnant to the peace and safety of the State; and shall not, unless by consent, support any teacher or teachers except those of their own profession."

Georgia Constitution
1777

Article I. Section 3. The 'representatives... shall be of the Protestant religion...' requirement was removed.

"Article IV. Section 5. All persons shall have the free exercise of religion, without being obligated to contribute to the support of any religious but their own."


Georgia Constitution
1789

"Article IV. Section 10. No person within this state shall, upon any pretense, be deprived of the inestimable privilege of worshipping God in any manner agreeable to his own conscience, nor be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith and judgment; nor shall he ever be obliged to pay tithes, taxes, or any other rate, for the building or repairing any place of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes to be right, or hath voluntarily engaged. To do. No one religious society shall ever be established in this state, in preference to another; nor shall any person be denied the enjoyment of any civil right merely on account of his religious principles."


Georgia Constitution
1798
Charter of Carolina (PDF) 23.6K
Ended Support: 1875
"Article XIX. That all men have a natural and unalienable right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences.

Article XXXI. That no clergyman, or preacher of the gospel, of any denomination, shall be capable of being a member of either the Senate, House of Commons, or Council of State, while he continues in the exercise of pastoral function.

Article XXXII. That no person, who shall deny the being of God or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust or profit in the civil department within this State.

Article XXXIV. That there shall be no establishment of any one religious church or denomination in this State, in preference to any other; neither shall any person, on any presence whatsoever, be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgment, nor be obliged to pay, for the purchase of any glebe, or the building of any house of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes right, of has voluntarily and personally engaged to perform; but all persons shall be at liberty to exercise their own mode of worship: -- Provided, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to exempt preachers of treasonable or seditious discourses, from legal trial and punishment."


North Carolina Constitution
1776

All religious references and requirements were eliminated in the constitution of 1875.


North Carolina Constitution
1875
Charter of Carolina (PDF) 23.6K
Ended Support: 1868
"Article XXXVIII. That all persons and religious societies who acknowledge that there is one God, and a future state of rewards and punishments, and that God is publicly to be worshipped, shall be freely tolerated. The Christian Protestant religion shall be deemed, and is hereby constituted and declared to be, the established religion of this State. That all denominations of Christian Protestants in this State, demeaning themselves peaceably and faithfully, shall enjoy equal religious and civil privileges. To accomplish this desirable purpose without injury to the religious property of those societies of Christians which are by law already incorporated for the purpose of religious worship, and to put it fully into the power of every other society of Christian Protestants, either already formed or hereafter to be formed, to obtain the like incorporation, it is hereby constituted, appointed, and declared that the respective societies of the Church of England that are already formed in this State for the purpose of religious worship shall still continue Incorporate and hold the religious property now in their possession. And that whenever fifteen or more male persons, not under twenty-one years of age, professing the Christian Protestant religion, and agreeing to unite themselves in a society for the purposes of religious worship, they shall, (on complying with the terms hereinafter mentioned,) be, and be constituted, a church, and be esteemed and regarded in law as of the established religion of the state, and on a petition to the legislature shall be entitled to be incorporated and to enjoy equal privileges. That every society of Christians so formed shall give themselves a name or denomination by which they shall be called and known in law, and all that associate with them for the purposes of worship shall be esteemed as belonging to the society so called. But that previous to the establishment and incorporation of the respective societies of every denomination as aforesaid, and in order to entitle them thereto, each society so petitioning shall have agreed to and subscribed in a book the following five articles, without which no agreement or union of men upon pretense of religion shall entitle them to be incorporated and esteemed as a church of the established religion of this State:

Ist. That there is one eternal God, and a future state of rewards and punishments.

2d. That God is publicly to be worshipped.

3d. That the Christian religion is the true religion.

4th. That the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are of divine inspiration, and are the rule of faith and practice.

5th That it is lawful and the duty of every man being thereunto called by those that govern, to bear witness to the truth."


South Carolina Constitution
1778

"Article VIII, Section 1. The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall forever hereafter be allowed within this State to all mankind, PROVIDED, That the liberty of conscience thereby declared shall not be construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace and safety of this State."


South Carolina Constitution
1790

14th Amendment to US Constitution was ratified by South Carolina in July 1868. The US Supreme Court ruled that this amendment ended state support of religion in all US states in ruling of Gitlow v. New York, 1925


Charter for the Province of Pennsylvania (PDF) 20.5K
Ended Support: 1790
"Section. 2. That all men have a natural and unalienable right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their Own consciences and understanding: And that no man ought or of right can be compelled to attend any religious worship, or erect or support any place of worship, or maintain any ministry, contrary to, or against, his own free will and consent: nor can any man, who acknowledges the being of a God, be justly deprived or abridged of any civil right as a citizen, on account or his religious sentiments or peculiar mode of religious worship: And that no authority can or ought to be vested in, or assumed by any power whatever, that shall in any case interfere with, or In any manner controul, the right of conscience in the free exercise of religious worship.

Section 10... shall each [representative] before they proceed to business take... the following oath or affirmation:


'I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.'
And no further or other religious test shall ever hereafter be required of any civil officer or magistrate in this state."


Pennsylvania Constitution
1776

"That no person, who acknowledges the being of God and a future state of rewards and punishments, shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this commonwealth."


Pennsylvania Constitution, Article IX, Section 4
1790
Surrender from the Proprietors of East and West New Jersey, of Their Pretended Right of Government to Her Majesty (PDF) 14.7K
Ended Support: 1844
"XVIII. That no person shall ever, within this Colony, be deprived of the inestimable privilege of worshipping Almighty God in a manner agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; nor, under any pretense whatever, be compelled to attend any place of worship, contrary to his own faith and judgment; nor shall any person, within this Colony, ever be obliged to pay tithes, taxes, or any other rates, for the purpose of building or repairing any other church or churches, place or places of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes to be right, or has deliberately or voluntarily engaged himself to perform.

XIX. That there shall be no establishment of any one religious sect in this Province, in preference to another; and that no Protestant inhabitant of this Colony shall be denied the enjoyment of any civil right, merely on account of his religious principles; but that all persons, professing a belief in the faith of any Protestant sect, who shall demean themselves peaceably under the government, as hereby established, shall be capable of being elected into any office of profit or trust, or being a member of either branch of the Legislature, and shall fully and freely enjoy every privilege and immunity, enjoyed by others their fellow subjects."


New Jersey Constitution
1776

As you can see, while not every colony, most had an official religion and was founded on the basis of one or another Christian doctrine. Christianity was the dominant force in America since it's founding, for the most part. Unfortuate as it is, we are a Christian nation - we even have "In God We Trust" on our money.

You're sweeping generalization of Muslim countries is hyperbolic at best and a misrepresentation at worst. You haven't seen me deflect the current trend of Islamic terrorism because it does excuse but Islam as a culture hasn't warranted me to live in fear of it, far from it actually - as it remains an issue that'll probably never affect me. The Irish in the IRA held the trend of terrorism in the UK a decade ago along with White Christians in America - Do we label them terrorists?

As for your opinion on the law, it's yet another example of you trying to force your worldview on others, like Sharia law. Marriage is a legal status and every citizens has the inherent right to acquire that legal status. Nobody is arguing that a Judge shouldn't be able to exercise his religious freedom, by resiging from their post if he refuses to do the damn job they were given.

They do not have the religious freedom to use a force of government to impose their fairytale beliefs on citizens of this country, whom they serve. That is the same thing as Sharia law. Now you can see why citizens should be more afraid of Christians imposing religious rulesets rather than Muslims, which account for 1% of our population.

1) By supporting the notion of a Judge not following the rule of law and judicating based on his unproven religious worldviews - You are imposing your religion on the citizenry.

2) By supporting the notion of a Judge not following the rule of law and judicating based on his unproven religious worldviews - You are supporting the government imposing religion on the citizenry.

3) It doesn't matter if you agree - It's the supreme court of the land and gay marriage is the law of the land. Your opinion no longer matters, a county clerk's opinion no longer matters, nor does a judge's opinion matter.

4) By supporting the notion of a Judge not following the rule of law and judicating based on his unproven religious worldviews - You are doing the same thing as Sharia law does, regardless of the extremity.

So you're saying that stupid people exist? Well no ****, it's been like that forever. You should try doing what I do - Chalk them up as idiots and move on with your life. Why does it matter what represents gay marriage? Who cares? Why do you care so much? Why are you so interested in their life?

I don't care what God promised because he's not real and the Bible is mythology. So you can say you're offended and be offended all you want. A judge can be offended and step down from his post.

What he cannot do is use his position and authority of the state to judicate based on his fairy tale beliefs and impose his religious will on the citizenry of the United States of America, a nation of rules and laws.

I see what you're saying, it's dumb.

 

We will see.

Trump had a good plan, he will come back with a rebuttal, once Obamacare fails and he does laughing, then they will come crying to Trump asking for something, he has a plan, some plans cant be used until another one fails and it takes patience. People have not been fair at all to Trump. Why should a person with no kids pay for pediatric dental care?

For that I apologize, this was a complete misunderstanding on my part. What I was trying to say and obviously failed miserably at saying (this actually made me laugh) so let me explain, although America was founded on Christian Values as in "In God we trust" we don't have an "official" religion. Islamic countries have the Muslim religion, but America doesn't have that. Yes we have Christian values (which I'm proud of) but we don't have an official "Religion". If that makes sense, and as being founded on "Christian" values gay marriage opposes that, don't ya think? I am not a true "Christian" I do not know what I am, I do believe in a God and I do pray but I'm still learning, I struggle with just having "faith" in something I do not see (that is for a different thread though)

Why in the world should we be more scared of a Christian religion than a Muslim religion? 1% of 318 million (as of 2014) is over 3 million people, as of 2014.

Not really.

Are we repeating ourselves? again, not really.

It needs to be changed, you agree that we were founded on "Christian values" the founding fathers would be oh so proud of that "law", NOT!

That is where you are dead wrong, Sharia Law would override the Constitution, allowing a queer to get married does not override the Constitution.

Yes, Ive been talking to one for quite some time now.

Should I chalk you up as an idiot? As soon as someone disagrees with you, you call them an idiot.... hmm,

I'm not offended that they used the rainbow as their symbol, its colorful, as they are. However, I'm saying you cant get offended by everything. Well I guess people can be offended by everything but that's not changing anything. A guy was offended that the Christian bible said "Gay people will go to hell" and wanted it removed from the bible??? WTF!!! No, that's not how life works.

You find it dumb because you disagree.

Can we find something that we agree on? This "Debate" has been us going at it for the past few weeks, I think it would help if we could agree on something, anything? How about his food stamp plan? Your thoughts? (No rapist, sexual predators, lazy people, rich people, hard core criminals etc etc on food stamps?

 

Donald Trump has been on 12 golf trips in 9 weeks as President

 

I find it funny how "The US president had criticized his predecessor Barrack Obama for playing the game"

 

You are only further proving his point... If the right to same sex marriage was changed because our country was founded of off Christian beliefs wouldn't that mean that you are forcing you religious beliefs on someone trying to marry another person of the same sex by them denying marriage? Also, why can't you live and let live? Letting religious beliefs overrule the constitution would also set a legal precedent that may allow Sharia Law to override the Constitution in the future.

There are 225 million Christians in the U.S compared to only 3 million Muslims as of 2014. What is your point?

Can you explain why it isn't instead of saying "Not really."

Can you give one example where Sharia Law has overruled the Constitution?

First of all "queer" is a slur, and I say this knowing I may be called a liberal snowflake by being offended by everything. Second, if a judge does not allow someone to marry another person of the same sex based off of religious then said judge is imposing religious beliefs on them.

Why do you care if we agree on anything?

 

The gay flag is literally a rainbow.
I have one hanging next to my desk.

 

I feel like this is contradictory. Wouldn't a judge exercising his religious views to supercede the constitution mean, in your views, that they shouldn't be allowed in America?

 

What was that about deleting things again?

Donald Trump's staff are 'wiping their electronic devices in anticipation of giving evidence'

 

He has been reported as working, while on these trips. Phone calls, meetings, etc etc...

Obama said he "wouldn't vacation or play golf" either, your point? Also, Trump has been working while on these trips.

No,you are taking their religious right away by forcing them to issue gay marriage licenses.

My point was acting as if "1%" of the population is so small, its really not. 1% of 318 million is 3 million. That is not that small.

Refusing to give a gay person a marriage license is not forcing them to follow the religion you follow. It is simply allowing the judge to follow his/her religious belief. Not forcing the gay person to become Christian.

Did I ever say Sharia Law has overruled the Constitution? I believe I said IF Sharia Law came to America it would override the Constitution, as it would. Sharia Law is "Gods Law". Sharia Law is not in America therefore it cannot override the Constitution. IF it came to America than it would override it.

LGBTQ you see that "Q"? it stands for "Queer" Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender, Queer. You cannot be offended by it, if it is literally in the name. Calm yourself, sir.

No, it is not forcing their religious views on them, "I am not going to issue a marriage license because you are Gay" is not saying "I am not going to issue you a marriage license because you are not a religious person" If he said "I am not going to issue you a marriage license because you are Catholic and not Christian", than I could see the problem.

There is no "we" in this, I was talking to Deinen, not you. Deinen and I have been strongly disagreeing with each other for sometime now, I just want to know if we did agree on anything.

Im saying people cannot be offended by everything. I understand the Rainbow = Gay but all in all as a Christian stand point, dont you think it can offend a Christian as the Rainbow represents Gods promise to never flood the Earth? Im saying that people have got to stop being offended over every little thing. The "How does a Rainbow represent gays?" was a rehtorical question.

Where in the Constitution does it say a gay person is allowed to get married? It is not unconstitutional for a human being to refuse to issue a marriage license to a gay couple. It may be "unlawful" but not unconstitutional. Which I believe that law should be changed.

Let me also say that I am not for or against gay marriage, I could careless if the 2 dudes next door get married.

So the guy that got fired from working for Trump, backlashes. hmmm #rigged.. haha of course he is gonna say they "deleted" stuff. We will see I guess.

 

Donald Trump says he's in meetings, gets photographed in golfing gear

I cannot find Obama saying he wouldn't vacation or play golf.

Nobody would be forcing them to do so - They can resign from the job that requires them to uphold U.S law

Using the force of the state to express you're religious views is inherently the same thing as Sharia law.

 

@Blue_marlin98 Let's say it is against my religion to work with computers but I work for the government as a network administrator. Should I be able to keep my job as a net admin even though I refuse work with computers?

 

can confirm, nz is best

but its after AusTralia the 2th bestest continent in mars? !!1!!!11!~!~~!~!!2!2@@1!@!!12!@!121!!one?

 

Blue, would you mind showing us your source?