GG America.

Whoa now. Trump may be an ignorant fatass, but our country is the greatest nation to have ever existed.

1. We give more money in foreign aid to third world country than anyone else, more than double of the 2nd greatest contributor, England.
2. America creates up to 30% of global GDP
3. We were one of the principle nations to drive space exploration
4. Our contribution to both WW1 and WW2 greatly tipped the scales in favor of the Allies.
5. Speaking of military, we militarally protect most of our allies, eliminating their need to fund any modern military force. (Keeping in mind these countries now with no military were the ones who caused both WW1, and WW2)
6. America provides 31% of all global research and development

These are just a couple of examples, but the list is near limitless. You cannot impose todays morality and ethics to a society which existed in a different time. To counter your examples

- In the early times, Western colonialism decimated the NA population. Countries such as Spain, France, England, Netherlands, and Portugal committed the same acts, except on a worldwide scale. It was a different time then and we cannot judge it with todays eyes accurately.

So has every other nation that has ever existed. Civilization itself is destructive on nature, a civilization you willingly take part of. Do you boycott products that causes harm to the environment, if not you are just as complicit. The solution of the planet is to go back to living in huts on the side of a hill.

Slavery was the norm of humanity since warfare, America doing it, while wrong, is not something one can accurately solely blame on the country. The discrimination henceforth is not forgivable, but it also does not diminish our "greatness" as a nation it diminishes our principles as a people. (Same way torturing people does now)

So has every other nation engaging in warfare in history. I've always disagreed with the wars in Afganistan / Iraq - But however, if looking back on them in 100 - 200 years we see it's a positive thing that strengthed our country, then you can't help but argue that it's potentially good to expand influence in the world. Is not the goal of a nation to grow and become more powerful?

Are you educated enough on history to know we've had ignorant pompous populists candidates before? History overall shows us they don't get much done, nor leave much of a lasting effect on the nation in the view of long history.


If America did not exist, this world would look vastly different.

 

This is surreal, honestly. Deinen made a quality post explaining to you why you're wrong, but I get the feeling that you are not well-educated in history nor current events. Is there a bias in Japanese schools towards America - because this post genuinely makes me feel there is, or you would feel differently. At least somewhere down the line, did no one explain to you the positives?

 

Doubt it, American Military is the reason Japan has a secure nation.

That being said, there is no way a Japanese individual has any standing to criticize any other country ever for the way they behaved in the past. Japan is responsible for it's own mind boggling atrocities.

 

In a way, I agree with you thinking that America is great. But I don't think it's truly great as it should be.

First of all. I don't want to make this quite an argument because there is no point to, but let's clear something up. Japanese schools do a good job of educating people so that Japan feels like it's a great country, and American schools do as well as Japan does, even more if not the same, but towards the United States. Good job educators. I can say this because I've been to both American and Japanese schools. No, Japanese schools don't teach to have biased opinions against other countries, because Japan is the number one country striving for peace. Obama was a good president in my opinion. He tried to make America great, but it was hard.

And @Deinen has explained to me the positives like every other teacher did. They never teach you the other perspectives.

I am not imposing today's morality and ethics to a society of a different time, to prove that America isn't great. It wasn't great. Even though people came to the States for opportunity, religion, freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, not all could have it. The Declaration of Independence, the American ideal, could not be achieved, thus I believe that it wasn't great.

This is from a poem by Langston Hughes (Let America be America Again, 1936)
"I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.
I am the red man driven from the land,
I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek--
And finding only the same old stupid plan
Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak."
In reality, this was how it worked in society at that time. Only the privileged had opportunities. Was America ever great like that?

So what makes America different from every other nation? If America wants to be just like every other nation and try to expand and become more powerful, it can seem like it's great, as great as every other nation on the world. But is that truly want America wants? Is that truly how the world should be changed, like you say at the end? Now because of the hatred built, there are terror groups threatening the daily lives of ordinary citizens. If you look from the future, America gained lots of oil so that was good; is that supposed to be America's greatness?

1. That is a great thing. I truly believe that America is great at that part. However, America has also given money to those countries for military expense, which most of the time aren't used right. (e.g. Israel)
2. This is great too. Big economy: more national power.
3. America has been the leading nation in space innovation and so has Russia. But is Russia great? I don't think that space exploration makes one country great.
4. Now you are bringing up the World Wars. It was a fight against fascism, which I strongly disagree on and which everyone should, but it was a different time period then. I don't believe that any war is justified, because it kills even the innocent people for politic affairs. Sure, the World Wars were great for America because it boosted the economy.
5. This was for America's own interest. It was to prevent other countries from being absorbed into the Russian umbrella in the Cold War. The "protected" countries still have to deal with American soldiers raping, drinking and causing crimes, and other things, and in addition, they have to pay America which Trump will increase by a lot. However, is America protecting its allies? No. There are numerous examples out there of American "protection" failing. One is the South China Sea problem that happened this summer, when China illegally built military bases on the sea. The international court can only do so many things, and the only thing that America has done for the Philippines was send an aircraft carrier and "warn" the Chinese. The Chinese bases are still there on the sea and nothing has been solved under the protection and law of the United States.
Also, it doesn't really matter who had caused the World Wars, because anyone can start war and it happened to be the Japanese, the Germans, etc. at that time. You should note that both countries have totally different political systems, yes, established by America.
6. Tying this into the economy, yes. Capitalism is working well and it has been able to make the country owe 19.8 trillion dollars.

Japan doesn't have a secure nation. Because of America, we can't protect ourselves in any way, yet it has to face neighbors taking advantage of American "protection", illegally claiming islands for fishing and oil. Japanese coast guards can't do anything about it, because America is probably not going to care if its ally loses fishing areas.

Now you are using me being non-American to take advantage over the topic. I wasn't trying to criticize America of the way it is, but I just pointed out that it doesn't look great from third perspectives. I don't believe that America has ever established its ideals written in the Declaration of Independence. And, you are bringing up the past again which we had no control over and that shouldn't be used to judge a nation according to what you say. I hope Donald Trump will make America great again.

 

I mingle with a more educated crowd. However I do have a playful side that enjoys a group such as you all fine people. Not saying you are less than. However empathy steers me. I will leave this post with a link for your information.

 

This is simply a subjective opinion on a catch phrase. Nobody can just "Make <country> great", cultures change not over a President, but decades and decades of almost imperceivable moments. On point of education - America's education is lacking, but the solution is so much more complex than just making it better. We have 50 states, with all ideologies, directing the education of their residents, but that is also the beauty of this country we get to have small labs of democracy all across our nation.

Of course not every person who came to America was able to achieve their dreams, but it did offer everyone the small chance they could come from nothing, and rise to the highest of society, which was lacking in most of the civilized world at that time, due to ethnicities, societal classes, and other causes.

The DoI, and American ideal are achieved we are a country able to determine our own path through the democratic process, and no outside influence can stop us.

World War 1 was not a fight against facism but a fight against the rulers of old, it all but ended monarchy in the Western hemisphere. The trigger for all of this was the inter breeding of royal families, and the defense pacts that went along with it.

What do you propose we do to stop China, start a war? Our laws do not apply there. Do you have any idea what a major war between nuclear powers would be like? We'd all be dead.

Debt drives the modern economy worldwide. The reason people keep lending to us is because they feel we can pay it back, being the most prosperous country in the world, I'd assume they are correct.

America has nothing to do with the demilitarization of Japan, as the Constitution, while partly drafted by MacArthur, was passed by the Japanese government. The Japanese government has every right to reverse this provision, and militarize themselves again.

I'm saying you, as a citizen of a country that murdered millions of people not 80 years ago, have no bearing or standing berating any other country on it's past atrocities. Of course our country has not established the perfect utopian ideals set forth in the DoI, but I'd take that venture with every other nation out there because life isn't orderly and pristine, and chaotic and dirty.

Which is exactly what you did when you went into slavery and the Indians. Most countries have their fair share of atrocities, and they should focus on keeping them in the past, rather than berating anyone else for their country's failings.

Donald Trump is literally an insane fat oompa loompa pedophile.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 14, 2016 ---

Can you source when and where Trump laid out all his ideas with real facts based on the real world?

 

Im on my phone, so I cant quote specific parts:

I just stated my opinion, whether it was subjective or not.

And I was being sarcastic with the Donald Trump phrase

By saying that the American ideal has been achieved, you are ignoring thousands of people who are discriminated for race, religion, customs, sexual orientation, wealth, and mental disorders.

The Japanese constitution was drafted mostly by MacArthur, as the US rejected the first draft by the Japanese government. America in fact has demilitarized Japan with pressure.

My point is that the US is no longer able to protect its allies, because they are no longer able to do anything without starting a nuclear war.

My part with bringing up the past is that it doesn't make sense how America brings up the past about other countries while telling them the downsides of America from the past.

America has not paid back enough of its debts, the number is so high.

My point is that America is not very special from other countries.

With the World War 1 part, yes I meant World War 2.

 

You all need to understand that the way you all are going about this. You are borrowing from your future generation to pay for past mistakes. What ever those mistakes are, they are putting the world into debt. Yes the world. You're all being lied to and fooled by everyone with an agenda. Lies to on so many levels
This is not only an American problem but a worldly one and Brexit and now Amercian elected Trump are symptoms of an old war that have been going for centuries. Between ...

1) people who work hard and save their money for future generations.
2) Future generation who don't work and care only for them selves.

In those two groups we have ranges of gray. From people who are retiring to students in debt to people who want to start businesses to politicians to media and government workers and so on. Like the spectrum of right-left politics.

Today we saw the people who worked hard and losing what they have to socialist interest groups brought in by good natured Liberals trying to pay for those things with people who have been and still are working.

They voted for trump.
People who hate Obama Care and watched the cost shoot up along with the penalty for not enrolling.
They voted for Trump.

People need to wake up.

 

I'm not justifying our extensive military spending but do you think we spend around 600 million dollars annually on just nuclear weapons?

 

I'm 99% sure that was sarcastic, but if it wasn't illegal immigrants would essentially be like a random stranger moving into your house, eating your food and possibly taking your job away. (Im not saying legal immigration is bad i'm just saying that illegal immigration is bad)
Also most people immigrate illegally to get away from their bad country, but instead of them staying and trying to fix the problem they move away and no one ever fixes the problem.

 

No? When did I say that lol

I meant that if the US takes an action it would ultimately result into a nuclear war which cannot be good for any country.

 

*Claims there is a racial problem in America
*Votes for Donald Trump

Just doesn't add up bud :/

 

I do kind of think this is ironic as the Global Peace Index shows that Japan has been losing its foothold as one of the 'most peaceful countries', and has dropped in ranking from 3-9 in the past couple of years.(pg 10). This does not show much evidence for #1 striving for peace. I'd like to see where you took your factoid from, Nats.
(For reference, the United States is ranked @ #103)

Not defending any side, per se, but I see extreme bias from you. Listing examples of the most negative things you can think of =/= a bad nation. You must take both sides into consideration.

 

That is interesting to see, but Japan is one of the only countries that ban nuclear weapons. It also bans declaring wars in the constitution, except in a few circumstances where Japan or its ally gets directly attacked (amended by Prime Minister Abe)

The European countries that are ranked above Japan are individually quite not involved in world politics, and they have no oppressive neighbors besides them, like Japan does with North Korea and such. They are not exposed to immediate threat, so they are able to have a more rounded education, I guess.

I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong here. I just stated my opinion that I don't think America is great as it is.

 

• United States, Russia, Britain, France, China, Israel, India, Pakistan, and North Korea each create nuclear weapons.
• Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Turkey each host nuclear weapons from for-mentioned countries.

Japan is in a nuclear alliance with the US, which means they were forced to cease nuclear armament in order to be protected by the US.
Other countries in nuclear alliances are as follows: Albania, Australia, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech, Denmark, Estonia, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, and Spain.

That aside, Japan is not one 'of the only' countries to not use nuclear weapons as there are countless countries not listed here.

Now Natsu, don't take this the wrong way, you know I like you, but next time you should research and argue these 'facts' with evidence and such BEFORE you comment them.

I like that, I respect your opinion, but when you share your opinion you must be able to defend it strongly.

 

It is literally stated in the Japanese constitution.

"
日本国民は、正義と秩序を基調とする国際平和を誠実に希求し、国権の発動たる戦争と、武力による威嚇又は武力の行使は、国際紛争を解決する手段としては、永久にこれを放棄する。
○２ 　前項の目的を達するため、陸海空軍その他の戦力は、これを保持しない。国の交戦権は、これを認めない。"
In order to achieve the international peace based on justice and order desired by the people of Japan, the nation will permanently abandon any means of provocation and threat by the use of arms to solve international disputes.
To reach the potential stated above, the nation will not possess armed forces including and not up to the army, navy, and the air force. Japan does not recognize its rights of belligerency.

This, the Ninth statement of the constitution has been taught to everyone in Japan and Japan is undoubtedly one of the most peaceful countries in terms of military usage internationally and locally.

To opposite any involvement with nuclear weapons, Japan has adopted Former Prime Minister Sato's 非核三原則(hikaku-sangensoku) or the three antinuclear principles.

That is:
"核兵器をもたず、つくらず、もちこませず"

Never possess nuclear weapons, never make them, never let them be carried in.

This is also taught to every student in school, and it has been enforced strictly to the best of the nation's abilities. Japan is one of the only countries with a doctrine this strict against nuclear weapons. One of the main reasons for this is because Japan is the only country that suffered from nuclear weapons. Japan knows the real truth and damage it can cause. Even though the US has kept its justice of using nuclear weapons, Japan has appealed internationally with its photographs of inhumane scenes caused by the nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

If the US got rid of the restrictions against possessing nuclear weapons for other allied countries, they would with no doubt, possess nuclear weapons. However, for Japan, this is different. According to an NORC survey and the Cornell University, 96% of Americans felt the usage of nuclear bombs were right. Later in 1998, 69% of the Americans think that dropping the nuclear bomb was the right think to do, or somewhere in between.

However in Japan, antinuclear opinions are evident. In a Gallup survey conducted in Japan, 90% of the people feel that it is unnecessary for Japan to possess nuclear weapons. In addition, 82% of Japanese people feel that the invention of nuclear weapons were a bad thing.

It is clear that Japan is antiwar and antinuclear. Japan strives for peace in their education. Not having nuclear weapons and banning them completely is different. Japan is always moving to achieve international peace.

 

Although that survey was from 20 years ago, I'll take your refute as progress.
Good arguments Natsu! Keep on keepin on

 

We can make a whole thread on this lol its not even about America anymore