'Pride Month'

You're the man.

 

"If you think a 'Gay Pride' parade is literally only about taking pride in one's own sexuality, I believe there's a lot of nuance that's not being taken into account. Wikipedia will probably do a better job than I can here."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_parade

...

"Events like the one's we're talking about allow both homosexuals and societies to come to terms with the idea that gays are healthy normal people just like you and me. They foster a welcoming environment for those in the closet, desensitize public opinion of gays, and increase awareness."

 

I don't think the time length really matters. Seeing how the pride parades work out across the country, a month seems like a fair amount of time, but a week could be suffice? Let me point out that the month isn't exclusively for one group of people. It can be shared! It's not like father's day is in any way related to gays simply because it falls in the month of June. June just has a lot of significance in LGBT history. Stonewall riots, important Supreme Court rulings (Romer v Evans, Lawrence v Texas, US v Windsor, Hollingsworth v Perry, Obergefell v Hodges), UpStairs Lounge Arson Attack (32 killed), and more recently the Orlando shooting (49 killed). So yes, I think June is a fine time to have it.

Anyone can claim any month they want for celebration. Time length isn't really important in the end, but the bigger the celebration the more time might be needed.

 

Timeline does matter in some instances, but I still agree that we should get recognition because of the struggles we have had over some other groups, but I still think that a month is a bit excessive. June is a good time to have it though

 

@Fangdragon1998 -- According to TheDebathiest, pedophilia is a mental illness.

According to the DSM, the comprehensive guide on human psychology.

Furthermore, I would actually like to argue that pedophilia is not a mental illness.

Gay pride parades take pride in both belief and action. Paedophile pride parades would be taking pride in the lack of action on their paedophilia. Which negates the whole idea of a 'pride' parade in the first place.

As per above, neither is pedophilia.

You even cited the DSM claiming that it is. It's just that our laws don't currently reflect that.

Let's break this down, as simply as I possibly can.

1a) The desire without any action to have sexual contact with children. (That's fine. As no-one here or in the DSM is proposing thought-crime.)

1b) The desire with action to have sexual contact with children. (That's not fine. For obvious reasons)

2a) The desire without any action to have sexual contact with people of the same gender. (Same thing, that's fine. No thought-crime here)

2b) The desire with action to have sexual contact with people of the same gender. (That's also fine. This is why paedophilia is classified as a mental-illness, and homosexuality isn't.)

The issue is not gay rights - it is that people are being hypocritical with this month.

Well, you believe so. You're arguing that we should celebrate paeodphilia in a way that we never celebrate cancer. We celebrate those that overcome physical illnesses, but we never celebrate the illness itself. I think you're trying to elude to a double-standard that doesn't exist. We shouldn't be enabling or 'taking pride' in mental-illnesses. We absolutely should be enabling and taking pride in homosexuality. Because it's not a mental-illness.

Pedophiles need social acceptance too. I can't imagine the self-loathing I would feel if I were sexually attracted to children, though I never had acted on it.

So do people with tumors. We celebrate the triumph over illness, rather than the illness itself. Whereas homosexuality isn't something to be 'overcome'.

Because of this, I question why gays accepting themselves is fine, but pedophiles accepting themselves is wrong - not acting on it, per se, but acknowledging that they are human and not a monster as well.

Because the desire and acts of homosexuality don't cause suffering. Paedophiles do. I don't know how else to explain it. 2 gays going 'at it' isn't an issue. Paedophiles having sex with kids, is.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 15, 2016 ---

Come on Fang.

If I routinely fantasized and was aroused by the ideas of slaughtering my neighbours, this is not a mentality to be "accepted" just because I havn't acted on it yet. It's a dangerous belief, and I should get psychiatric help immediately. Because we apply preventative measures, to stop belief spilling over into action. The exact same principle applies to paedophilia. There is nothing comparable with homosexuality here, because gay-sex has no injured party.

One is a belief that leads people to act in ways that harm our society. The other doesn't.

 

Of course I completely agree that being a pedophile and being gay are different things. One is a choice between two happy consenting adults and one is the attraction towards someone who can't consent. Simple as.

However:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/opinion/pedophilia-a-disorder-not-a-crime.html?_r=0
https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2013/12/22/is_pedophilia_a_sexual_orientation.html
http://rogercanaff.com/site/2014/10/an-inconvenient-truth-about-pedophilia-its-a-curse-not-a-choice/

It's can be seen via an MRI so therefore it's neuroligical the same as being gay is.
I'm lazy and need to study so that's all I can come up with at the minute.

In case I'm coming off as an intolerant homophobe I'd just like to say I'm really not and completely support the LGBTQ+ community.

 

dude it was a joke chill, I thought it was funny how these debates go off on several page long tangents.

 

Hey, if you need a month to signify your pride then you're obviously doing something wrong.

Let's all hate Burritoh cuz he said that : o

First of all, calm down for future reference.
I didn't say it's wrong, I didn't say it's right, my opinion most likely won't be stated.
I'm saying why need a month for it?
If you want to be proud then go ahead. For every Christian you can go ahead and read in the bible about how Lucifer was prideful, = his "downfall." He was very good looking = pride = downfall.

Or at least that's my understanding, correct me with a convo (privately) if I'm wrong, not here to stir trouble.
NO, I'm NOT saying I'm a Christian or that I'm not a Christian, I'm stating things that I believe and I don't care to state my beliefs for the soul fact of I don't care to get flamed today and I can do this without involving all that.

@shains

NOT hating or attempting to start an argument. A debate, yes, but no need for hatred for if we do end up debating it can be a normal convo.
I don't need a pride month for being straight.
Possible response: because being (insert many letters here) was considered "bad" or not right, etc, they need a month for whatever reason.
My response: it's kinda like they're doing it just to stir something up? Not stir something up like theyre really really trying to start something, just why do it the way they do? It's like being a Hindu or Muslim and telling a Christian, "Hey, we can be what we want and it doesn't matter what you think because you're wrong anyways." OR VICE VERSA. I say that because someone's gonna get pouty if i don't and think I'm putting down Muslims or Hindus. MY POINT IS: I don't flaunt being straight, or whatever word you'd like to use. Why do hey have to do that because they're one of the many different titles?
And of course, this is directed to everyone not just Shains. Had just happened to read that one post, haven't really read any others but the original.

Just tag me or whatever with contradictions and I'll respond whenever I have time.

 

The action is not where the hypocrisy lies. Go look at shains' post, where he tried to explain why gay pride month exists.

BY THIS LOGIC, pedophiles deserve a pride month too. They are treated abhorrently by society for having desires that they don't act on, and many of the virtuous ones feel like they do not deserve to live.
I was not ever saying pedophilia is okay or good for society. I was pointing out that the broad logic almost always applied to this is flawed.
Again: gay history month would make 100x more sense, not gay pride. But apparently, there already is one?
So why is gay pride month ALSO needed, if we already celebrate the accomplishments of equal rights and remember atrocities committed?

Also,

Let me rephrase then. A virtuous pedophile month, where we celebrate those who overcame thoughts and urges, which you said were not an illness?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2016 ---

How many people do you think are attracted to children? Last night when i looked up the estimates, it apparently is about the same as the gay population (3.8% per gallup.com). How many pedophilies do you know? You think you know none. Do you really think that if people are afraid of going to a therapist NORMALLY, they are just so inclined to tell them they are a pedo, with the social stigma that that entails? No.
The acceptance lies there. It needs to be realized that pedophiles cant help their desires, and they need to be allowed to find help for them. Why do they have to hate themselves?

 

I see what you're trying to say, but a lot of things can be seen in am MRI scan. It helps your case, but I still think more studies should be conducted (in any legal way they can).

 

@Fangdragon1998 originally you suggested a pedophiles pride month, now your suggesting a pride month for pedophiles who don't touch children, those are 2 different things.

 

Because it's not "overcome" until they stop having desires to have sex with kids. Let's hone in on this, because I think it's important and telling. To overcome, is to conquer. Not to mitigate. Not to temporarily restrain oneself. It's to defeat it. Restraining oneself on today, while knowing that one will have to deal with these "thoughts and urges" from tomorrow onwards? That's not "overcoming". To overcome paedophilia, is to scrub clean one's own desires to sleep with children. Or, to have reliable ways of dealing with these urges without any increase in the suffering of others or one's self. In both cases, seeking a psychiatrist is the best path there.

It could be a slip of the tongue, in which case, please clarify. Otherwise, I don't believe this is acceptable behaviour in civil discourse.

Please explain to everyone on this forum, how you got from:

TheDebatheist -- "Most importantly though (as you've eluded to) our reaction to them should be one of compassion. We should understand their plight, and (key difference here) not indulge their feelings or behaviour. We should look at paedophilia in a similar way we look at schizophrenia. Console them, seek professional assistance as soon as possible to try and find ways to mitigate the problem."

...to the implication that I've ever supported a position that promotes the self-loathing of paedophiles.

You -- "Why do they have to hate themselves?"

They don't. I've clearly explained that they shouldn't. They should, however, desire to change. You asked for a difference between homosexuality and paedophilia. I've posted many times explaining why. Now, we're barely talking about Gay Prides at all. You're just promoting the idea of a 'Paedophile Pride Parades'. Hence, I'd like to abandon the conversation here.

E: 4min [Tone]

 

The 4th of July is a time to celebrate national pride. It's become a tradition because of an important event in the nation's history that happened during that time. Other countries aren't included in 4th of July in the US because it's a celebration of US's history and victories. Same concept with LGBT history in the month of June. It's a celebration of LGBT people's fight for equality.

Pride for LGBT people has just become a tradition since the LGBT rights movement first began from the Stonewall riots. People are free to celebrate whatever they want. Nobody has to celebrate pride month, but please be mindful of why it exists in the first place.

Again, you're free to celebrate the month of June however you want. Just be mindful of why it's LGBT pride month in the first place.

 

https://ifyouseelights.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/truth-bomb.gif?w=300&h=173

 

I clarified here.

 

People just need to accept the fact that being gay is just sexuality, it shouldn't be as big of a deal as it is, it's overtelevised imo, being gay isn't bad, but seeing all this publicity makes my eyes hurt

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 15, 2016 ---

that's exactly spot on

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2016 ---

I'm all for people being gay, love is love! But if you feel like EVERYONE is discriminating against you, that just isn't the case...

 

What's wrong with a little publicity? We see all kinds of people on TV on a daily basis. We only notice gays because they seem out of the ordinary to us. In reality, the amount of gays you see on TV is probably proportional to how many gays are in society

 

I was actually arguing that we should not celebrate gay pride month by comparison, come to think of it.

Isn't this mitigating?
But I do believe we are saying the same thing about this concept of overcoming. If you find that you differ, please let me know where.

No, I'm not. @Skaros123 and I discussed this on skype, perhaps he can try to pitch in about how I feel about the hypocrisy of it?
I know they don't.
That's what I'm saying. That's what you're saying.
However, the fact that people are absolutely disgusted by the idea of pedophilia, even though people can't help it, is what I'm trying to highlight.
It was an argument against shain's premise that people continue to take out of context. My argument was based on, well:

Now, before you respond to what I said above, let me ask you what gay pride month is about. Is it to celebrate this history and the struggles of gays and equal rights? No. There's an LGBT+ history month in October already.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_History_Month
So what is it for?
Again, since no one responded to this part:

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 15, 2016 ---

http://www.statista.com/topics/1249/homosexuality/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States 2015
http://www.gallup.com/poll/183383/americans-greatly-overestimate-percent-gay-lesbian.aspx 2012
http://www.gallup.com/poll/158066/s...rce=LGBT&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=tiles
"In this ongoing study, respondents are asked "Do you, personally, identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender?" with 3.8% being the most recent result, obtained from more than 58,000 interviews conducted in the first four months of this year."

" The widely off-the-mark nature of Americans' estimates is underscored by the finding that in the most recent update, from May 6-10, only 9% of Americans estimate that the gay and lesbian population is less than 5% -- where Gallup's tracking figure would put it -- while at the other end of the spectrum, 33% estimate it as more than 25%."

For anyone who was curious about what percent there actually is apparently.

 

We don't know the accurate percentage because they vary area to area.

Also, does that even contradict what I said?

 

No,