Can terrorism be justified?

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html
literally scroll down and read.
"fight in the way of Allah"
"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers"

And those are just a few.

 

@DangitAnas

Also, this is the verse right before the one you've quoted
"And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but be not aggressive. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors."

Edit: Actually, your source cherry picked my quoted line to only include "fight in the way of Allah" and leaving out the rest of the relevant context.

E2: More or less, the story regarding your evidence is that they were in a war.

E3: Additionally, everytime your link provides the words fight, it provides no context in which fight in used. This is an issue because fight can mean many things, including struggle.

 

"Allah will afflict you with punishment from Himself or by our hands"
"strive hard [Jihad] against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them"

Tell me these quotes aren't alarming. I picked two quotes out of the thousands of excerpts on that website and here are two more, unsurprisingly commanding violence and unsurprisingly they were easy to find. Those are two more and there are many like them. I'm sure you are correct that there was more context to that quote, but just scroll through some of these excerpts and honestly tell me all these calls for violence are not concerning.​

 

Ok, to begin, Jihad doesn't mean a war against someone, but rather it's a more universal term. Jihad means a struggle against. For example, you could wage a Jihad against alcohol, driving, or uninformed opinions.

Jesus christ, what are you, a Republican? Stop cherry picking to fit your narrative. The entire line is:

Say: Do you await for us but one of two most excellent things? And we await for you that Allah will afflict you with punishment from Himself or by our hands. So wait; we too will wait with you.

Again, another cherry picked line

O Prophet! strive hard [Jihad] against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.



- These quotes are about as alarming as the countless calls for violence within the Bible, which is to say; it's not alarming at all, it's literature written by people of another time in a language we cannot read. What is more alarming though is we have an entire subsection of people who are so willing to be influenced by utter nonsense, and even more twisting the nonsense to fit their odd world view.

 

Just seems that the millions who would kill im the name of Jihad have a little bit of a different interperatation than you. This mere "literature" as you call it is what inspires many of these people to walk into hospitals with bomb vests on and kill 80 people.

 

Hi @Deinen and thanks for tagging me here..

Please @Jalapenos, when you take a verse out of quoran, do not cut it.. It changes the whole meaning, and for example here the whole verse says: "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors."

See, the whole meaning changed because you didn't read the end of the verse, we (us muslims) are asked to fight in the way of Allah/God those who fight us.. Pretty rightful when someone tries to kill your family, conquer your country, you don't watch him do, you react and fight back, but the verse says fight in the way of Allah? What does it mean? Does it mean kill innocent? Does it mean bomb people? Does it mean go into hospitals and kill babies children women elders? The answer is in the second part of the verse: "those who fight you but do not transgress" and the very end shows how God doesn't accept transgressors.

Another thing not to do when you read Quran is to use the right translation for its words to truly understand its meaning. It’s important whenever one reads a Quranic verse, to read it in its context.. In this verse we talk about 'Fitnah' which you've translated with the word 'persecution'. At the time when this verse came, there was a problem inbetween muslim comunity, Islam was still something new and Muslim were a minority, so oppression became a thing. I'll explain: Before Islam, the community was divided into two groups, very rich and powerful people (merchants, land owners, knights.. ) and very poor ones (workers, slaves..). Pretty much the same as in the European Feodal Age. So when Islam came and people started convert to Islam, some people accepted that all man kind are equal as the Prophet Mohamed SAW told them; Some of them didn't accept that they're equal with their own slaves, and some of the slaves wanted to revenge. So the verse came to put some rules to fix this kind of "civil war" if we can call it this way. It told true muslims when they find two groups of Muslims fighting each others, to fight them both. And to never fight them in the sacred Mosque unless they do first (always in self-defense) and then it said: "such is the recompense of the unbelievers" MEans if unbelievers fought in the sacred places, then you fight them there too.

And to not cut the verse once again, the end of the verse says: "And if they cease, then indeed, God is Forgiving and Merciful." Which asks Muslims to stop fighting when the other group stops. Not only it asks you to defend yourself but also it reminds you not to transgress and to forgive.. God is Merciful.

 

The thing I dislike the most is when people nit pick from different quotes in the Quran to propose that it is in the scripts to kill and punish people in the name of Allah.

I could use the bible and nit pick a quote that the KKK refer to to help expand their members and beliefs of black slavery: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ''.
I could even use another quote from the bible that could be seen as a +1 on child abuse: Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

To me they are not alarming because I do not believe in such things written in the bible. How about you?

I believe that there is justification in terrorism depending on the reason for it.

I did have a long opinion about Islam but then I seen @DangitAnas had made a reply which stated what I believe and wrote more, cheers.

 

It depends a lot on the act of terror itself. I saw quoted on a major news media source that "one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter." This was literally said in a discussion about the Islamic State in Iraq which I find abhorrent. However this statement is true and untrue to some degree. As Deinen pointed out, would we not do the same to protect our families and country? However one of the places I would draw the line of "justification" is religious fanaticism. In no way shape or form is it justified for a suicide bomber to detonate a devise as well as himself to kill innocents because "god commanded it." It is not justified for religious fanatic militants to storm a cartoonists office in Paris and murder them for depicting the prophet Muhammad. In the same way it is not justified for a religious fanatic terrorist to bomb an abortion clinic. The definition of justified according to Websters Dictionary is: to provide or be a good reason for (something) : to prove or show (something) to be just, right, or reasonable. There is no place where any type of that behavior is justified, regardless of the geopolitical circumstances surrounding some of the countries.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2016 ---

There are countless things in Islamic culture that are not compatible in the west. Sharia law for example is something that will always contradict the principles of liberalism and the west itself. While these laws are not representative of 100% of the Muslim population, the majority of Islamic countries do implement these laws or some of them and are continuously violating human rights.

 

Show evidence that there are millions.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2016 ---

I'm not sure how incompatible that is, considering the US has it's own religious fundamentalists that are trying to impose their religious worldview on the society in which they live in. But the bottom line, I think, is that the population of these countries must be happy, or else they would overthrow their government. Incompatibility to the west isn't inherently bad, it's just different.

The current wave of terrorism we see in the world is not rooted in religion, it's rooted in power. Those in power are using religious as a motivator, using it as a tool. Terrorism today is the same as it's always been, geopolitical issues and people striving for power using others to achieve those aims.

 

Christian religious fundamentalism in politics is certainly a problem that needs to be solved, however I believe sharia implemented in the United States would have far more drastic consequences.

If taken at face value, sharia calls for death for apostates, the subjugation of women (if a girl is raped she is forced to marry the rapist to protect her family's honor), the cutting off of limbs of thieves, the outlaw and punishment for homosexuality and countless other ways of living that would violate the standards of society that we have achieved the last centuries. I disagree with your statement that incompatibility to the west isn't inherently bad, just different. I believe it is completely reasonable to call some societies bad, even if the population hasn't revolted. If a country sentences to death an apostate (as Iran did in 2002) or punishes by death the practice of homosexuality (Afghanistan etc.) or consistently oppresses women (pretty much every Islamic country) that society is bad. It's a perfectly reasonable stance to prefer one society over the other.

Yes, much of terrorism is striving for power. Mohammed himself is a great example of this. He was a conquering warlord, I believe it is fair to say that he did this primarily trying to achieve power rather than spread Islam, but the later was certainly part of it. It is undeniable that there are some acts that are purely religiously motivated though, and I believe that we all can agree that these acts are in no way justified.

 

No! What kind of question is this? Religious extremism of any kind cannot be justified.

 

First of all I am quoting my source which is linked in my earlier messages, none of this was translated or cut by me. Second of all while I do see the way you are looking at it, and in fact it is a very beautiful way to interpret these messages and I'm sure most Muslims do interpret it this way, many powerful Muslim countries, leaders, terrorist groups, and individuals use these scripts as justification for violence. You did open my eyes to a new view of a peaceful side and wonderful side of Islam, but you and I both cannot ignore those millions who would kill and harm in the name of these scripts. To sum up my point, while you and most others may see these excerpts through a peaceful and more subjective lens, there are still some that view this objectively and do kill thousands of people every year in the very name of them. Again, I do thank you for describing to me how peaceful the Quran can be interpreted.

Ok so here you set me up for a good response. It is good that you don't believe in such things written in the bible just as I don't. It means you view things through a more subjective lens rather than objective. However, a very small minority of the Muslim population looks at the Quran through, you guessed it, an objective lens. This small group will follow these commandments and kill many people in doing so, and that cannot be denied. What seems even scarier to me, however, is that many Muslim countries also follow these commandments literally and organize the stoning of gays in the streets and name avenues after those who have perished committing acts of terror. Now yes, the bible states some terrible things, but they are no longer endorsed by the Catholic Church. The Quran on the other hand states just as terrible things, but this terrible things are endorsed by governments and executed literally instead of extracting the deeper lesson.

 

Whatever happened to not nitpicking things?
You can't invalidate the whole argument based on one exaggeration, if you just change "millions" to "some" the argument is good.

@LR_Davius All your arguments about Shariah law are pretty much invalid.

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
-I Timothy 2:11-14

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."
-Deuteronomy 22:28-29

"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking in, and he is beaten to death, no one is guilty of bloodshed."
-Exodus 22:2

"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
-Leviticus 20:13

The Bible says basically the same things.

 

Why can't it be justified?

 

My points are invalid because the Bible? What?

Yes both the Torah and the teachings of Islam are backwards to our society. I'm not sure what your point is.

 

No, if it's just some, then it's just like any group that has extremists. A small section of that group are crazy.

 

So ummm.. The thread's main subject is

Islam is a religion not terrorism.. duh... You guys been talking about Islam making it sound like if the question was is Islam the cause behind terrorism? but yea.. Just wanted to point this out..

 

Yes, because right now
they are connected. If this debate took place in the 90s, it would be staying towards the Irish, and Catholicism / Protestantism

 

Extremism.
The very word makes me hurt at heart
Despite the fact that we may believe its wrong, to them it can be justified, but to me its not. MANY people are biased towards their own
opinions . I think personally it cant, because killing innocent people based on your own opinions is completed unnessasary. I don't know why "Isis" or "Al Quaida" are even a thing, because it states in their holy book that "Only in times that there must be a holy war" Over in the middle east almost all of the population is muslim, so in what way is their religion threatened to the fact that they need to kill people. Im calling it "Persecution", because in this case, the muslim groups are killing innocent Catholics and Christians who they are killing strictly because they aren't muslim. This is what bothers me. There is no reason for the fact that they are killing innocents for not being muslim, they are even killing some of their own people. It can only be justified if the whole world is near the point where one religion is getting killed off, say the Halocaust for example. In that time, Jews fighting back towards a certain cause could be justified, as they were being persecuted. In times of these, no. not to me it cant. But if a world event is occurring to where a religion is dying off due to a group, then yes

 

What about the fact those Muslim groups are killing far more Muslim than Christians?