Bernie Sanders

@Chaase5 -- "Bernie Sanders is an idiot....

The idiots that vote for him...

...Complete Retard"

Hmmmm.

"He even goes as far as saying that taxing the upper middle class and above 92% isn't out of the picture. How stupid can someone get?"

Well, that's pretty "stupid" (your words, not mine), if you actually believe that anyone is proposing a tax-rate of 92%.

Let's have a conversation here. You're talking to us like Trump would. A lot of profanity, little substance, and what *is* substantive is just flat-out false.

No-one in the history of the U.S. has ever proposed 92%, and neither has Bernie.

The highest tax-rate that Bernie will implement is 52%. And that's only for income earned over $10,000,000.

Here's how it breaks down. Income earned between:

$250,000 - $500,000 --- 37%
$500,000 - $2,000,000 --- 42%
$2,000,000 - $10,000,000 --- 48%
$10,000,000+ --- 52%

I have no idea where you're getting this 92% number from. Other than from Trump.

Be smart, be skeptical. All it takes is a quick google search to check these things.

 

Simply put, Bernard Sanders is not my first choice due to my political beliefs but what I will say is that although I do not agree with a large amount of his policies, I would prefer to have him over Hillary Clinton (No I am not being sexist) or Ted Cruz. I do have many reasons why I do not want Sanders to win but if he does, I will not be throwing a temper tantrum and threatening to move to a different country, rather I will simply suck it up and observe what he does in the next four years and see where that makes us end up. After all, all Americans have the right to vote for who they want and if the majority of the nation wants Bernard, then let it be. His presidency will only last for at the most eight years and if he doesn't fulfill his promises and policies, we have the next election down the road to pick someone new.

 

I'm not sure where you read this...


But this is what I found:
Area small-business owners are certain of one thing: The elimination of Kansas income tax on profits for owners in limited liability companies, or LLCs, subchapter S corporations and sole proprietorships amid a slowly recovering economy is welcome news.

“It’s not a bad thing at all,” said Brian Franz, an owner of Millennium Machine & Tool in Newton, which is an S corp. “Obviously, small businesses are struggling. It will help everything.”


From freaking KANSAS.COM, so...


http://www.kansas.com/news/business/article1092681.html#storylink=cpy

Actually, that was because of the Industry created from WWII, which was what dragged us out of the depression by completely destroying unemployment, which until then had been up at about 30%, if I'm not mistaken.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409

I don't claim a lot of economic knowledge, but Colleges are generally where one goes to find information and knowledge, as they are places of learning... And since they are notoriously liberal, I was surprised to find this... It makes some interesting 'discoveries'.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2016 ---

So the actual income is $4,800,000... As a matter of principle, I believe you should get to keep what you earn, so a 50% tax rate seems ludicrous to me, but if it were to be implemented, I would at the very least expect it to be for all incomes. That would be fair.

 

At this point, I wish Kanye was running in 2016 instead of 2020.

 

Oh Lord....

I'll just go on about a couple random points.

• 45 percent on the value of an estate between $3.5 million and $10 million.
• 50 percent for the value of an estate between $10 million and $50 million.
• 55 percent for the value of an estate in excess of $50 million.

So a person works their whole life and by these figures amassed a large amount of wealth. This was already taxed and they wish to hand it down to their offspring/loved ones so they don't have to work as hard and the government has the right to half of it? That's just disgusting in my opinion.

• 37% on income between $250,000 and $500,000.

This is where I have issues... This constitutes as the working profession class. These people went to medical schools, perhaps a married couple that are both pharmacists etc.. These people went through a grueling academic process only to have 40% of their salary taken after you factor in state income taxes. Sorry but this doesn't fly with me. Anyone in America can get into this bracket as a married individual if they work for it.

• Increasing corporate tax and increasing minimum wage

You increase the tax rate and companies leave, you don't get more money... sorry to burst your bubble. Companies will just move the Mexico, Canada, or China as they are doing now. Increasing minimum wage will only hurt small businesses. These larger corporations will just cut the workforce and put machines in place of people. Sure, you can have your $15 but half the workforce will be cut so I hope you aren't the unfortunate one laid off.

• Free college

You do know people go into the military and are shot at and don't complain.... they earned their right to an education, they didn't get it for free. Meanwhile people complain that they are entitled to a college education. They complain they don't want to pay $40,000 a year, well there's a solution! Go to a state school that's cheaper, take out loans to pay for school, and don't pick a major that doesn't make enough money to pay off your loans. Its all about personal responsibility. There's no point in paying $40,000 a year for a job that will yield $35,000-50,000 a year. You're going to be paying interest on that and it will take ages to pay off, go to a different school that's cheaper. Not to mention not everyone needs to go to college... More graduates will only drive wages down because there will be an influx of so many professions.


This country is a capitalist nation and we have the largest GDP... I wouldn't say our system is broken by a long shot. Do we have waste? Sure, what nation doesn't have waste? Military spending is pretty outrageous, I agree but its a huge industry now and you can't simply "cut it". People bash republicans because you can't just simply cut spending however cutting military spending has no consequences. When it comes to Sweden and other socialist nations as some would call them, I rather live in America. I personally rather not live in a small little house with a 2 burner stove and a laundry machine in my kitchen. The cost of living in the USA is much lower, taxes are lower, people have more freedom to do what they want with the money THEY EARNED.

I personally don't feel like paying 37% in addition to state income tax because I busted my ass in school and had to take out $40,000 a year in loans. But no, "I'm privileged" because I was sleep deprived for 4 years working in grad school. Sorry but I don't feel like subsidizing those who didn't have the drive to go to college and rather complain they aren't getting a living wage at McDonalds which is a job for high school students.

 

This is disingenuous, given that roughly 4.92% of Americans are considered millionaires, and this overestimates due to not removing people that possess 1 to 2 million. The fact is, this tax plan will affect nearly nobody here, nor anyone we know. Especially since a great portion of extremely wealthy people use trusts, and other mechanisms to avoid estate tax.

Assuming every plan Sanders has talked about gets passed, which it won't. You are only stating the tax cost, and not the saving provided by this plan. Removing health insurance premiums would allow most people to save a massive amount of money. Additionally allowing public schooling to be free would not only save further, but it would benefit our country, and allow us to provide a more robust and competitive work force, a great boost for capitalism, and innovation.

Beyond that, the situation we are in demands some change. What incentive is there to advocate for a system that does not provide people's basic needs, education, or even the jobs to help them pull themselves up. I don't think we really know what $15 an hour will do to anyone, but I do know we're very close to finding out as cities all across the country are working to implement it. As for companies, they are already leaving. More than an outright tax increase, we need to shut down the avenues they are using to avoid taxes, and end the reckless use of tax breaks.

These larger corporations are already going to do that, even if our minimum wage doesn't rise, it's simply more efficient, and cost effective. Whether or not people are getting paid $10, or $15; those companies are going to keep implementing robotics in as many areas as feasible.

Not everyone is able to join the military, but everyone deserves an opportunity to educate themselves and better themselves. If you support a strong national defense, and security system, then education goes hand in hand with that. Not only will more education make us more competitive on the world labor market, but it will drive up innovation in our own country.

This is not an argument for everyone to go to college and do nothing while there for free. This is an opportunity that should be earned through good scholastic behavior and aspirations. Everyone needs to go to college, or else they wind up in a fast food job, clerk, or other minor customer service jobs that barely pay a living wage. Or else they can turn to factory jobs which consistently dwindle up, especially as innovation happens. As far as trades go, not everyone is meant for them, and not everyone can get in trades.

Nobody is advocating we become another country. I think what is being advocated is taking a look at other people's good ideas, and consider implementing them into our clearly broken system. It's apparent because the upper class is getting richer, and there is a shrinking middle class system. The middle class is what made our country great, and I encourage people to take a look at countries that have a weak or no middle class.

http://www.bernietax.com/

I encourage you to input your estimated salary in the future, and your estimated health care costs. If you are considering getting married in the future, or having kids, try out those numbers. I insure 6 people in my household, it's extremely expensive. Even though my taxes would go up in this plan, my insurance savings would significantly change my life.

I'm not some lazy freeloader. I've worked full time since I was 16 to support my family. Don't let the usual narrative tint your glasses.

 

This is one of the most backwards, twisted things I've heard from you. 4% of Americans are gay, therefore who cares if they have the right to marry? I mean, it's only 4%, it's not like we should care. It affects next to nobody! It's not like we live in a country of 320 million people, and four percent means TWELVE MILLION INDIVIDUALS.

 

I was interested in Bernies policies until I heard him promise he'd take all trucks off the road and make a good rail system. Taking trucks off the road and having millions of people lose their jobs, go Bernie...

 

Corporations are a necessary evil, sorry to break it to everyone. And no, everyone doesn't need to go to college. There are trades you can go into like plumbing, contracting, masonry etc.. I know plenty of people that didn't go to college and they are successful. If you want to go to college its simple, take out loans and pay for it. If you can't afford a specific college then go to another one. It's like saying "everyone should have a car" and going out and buying a Ferrari vs buying a Lexus when all you need is to go from point A to point B. And yes, its an accurate statement because if you go to some schools it can run you $60,000 a year while you can do 2 years at a community college (I did that) and transfer into a school and get away only paying $20,000 a year for the last 2 years. Its all about being smart with how you spend your money.

We already have public education for younger children which has its cost incorporated in property taxes and its sufficient. You can come from a "crappy" district where the problem is generally kids not giving a rat's ass vs a funding issue and go to a well known university, you just need to apply yourself. My mother did it, so can others.

 

Corporations are necessary; however, they exist to create profit. They do not voluntarily regulate themselves. They have been using the same anti-regulation tirades as when they were fighting to continue child workers. There needs to be societal limits placed on Corporations, to reign in some of the les-a-faire attitude. Nobody is talking about abolishing them.

In an increasing technological world, yes, you need to be college educated. There is plenty of data about the quality of life, income, etc of those do have not gone to college, vs those who have. College is a necessity just the same as Corporations. Growing up in a family in various trade fields, they aren't that simple to get into, let alone acquiring work.

The free school idea does not apply to Private institutions, but public educational institutions. This is a reasonable middle ground, because as you said. K - 12 education is now free, which used to not be. However, a college degree today is essentially the equivalent of a High School Diploma a few decades ago in terms of the jobs you can get with it.

"Just because I had to do it" isn't a reasonable dismissal of sound policies and ideas. I applaud you, and your mother, but that does not deal with very real issues we, as a country face. The income gap is widening, lower education jobs are dwindling, and we'll soon be facing a future where robotics, and machinery threaten to remove an even larger portion of jobs that we've ever seen before.

My vote for Sanders acknowledges that a great portion of what he believes will not come to fruition in the next 4 to 8 years, likely it'll be the next 20 to 40 years as these things slowly take shape. The main reason I voted for Sanders is because he says what he believes, and he believes what he says, that I can respect. There is currently no other major candidate in the field that can stand by his words, nor that I can put faith into.

Trump is literally saying what he thinks he can say and get ahead, as decades of his history has shown he's far more liberal than he's espoused this election. He's been a NY Democrat for ages.

Cruz is literally Satan. Well, no, Satan is a right ol' chap compared to Cruz.

Kasich is the same ol' same ol'.

With exception of Trump, which carries his own baggage, I'm almost certain the GOP will steer us into another decade long war with third world tribes.

Clinton is just a career politician, pivoting on issues to suit her needs and crowd. I'm ok with a lot of what she says, however I can't believe for a second anything she says.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2016 ---

...

Those aren't the same things at all? Nobody is talking about denying millionaires an equality the rest of us enjoy.

 

Even if one feels the bern, we can't bern down America.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lege-grads-have-a-job-related-to-their-major/

Here's the thing.... as it is we have too many people graduating with college degrees in jobs that just aren't there.

What's going to happen if everyone gets free college and rainbows?

People will just go to college not work and expect a free ride for another four years of their life.

I am self supporting, in fact I buy food for the majority of my household. My parents do not give me anything for school or living expenses, in fact it's actually the opposite, I give them money when they need it which is not nor do I expect it to be payed back anytime soon. I will be attendnig college this summer, and paying for it 100% without Financial aid, and student loans.

People should not be given free rides.

 

Why?

 

Because it gets taken for granted. If people just go to college and it's 100% free and rainbows, I don't think they'll take as much out of it as if they would had they worked hard for it.

Deinen I know you're not a kid, but here's an example of my thinking.

If you want a new computer, and your parents go and buy it for you just because why not, I'm sure you'll be happy with it; however you might just leave it on the floor or just all in all not take care of it as if you would had you earned the money shoveling snow to buy it yourself. You just don't realize the true value of what it's worth.

Second, quite a few people I have worked with have some form of college education. And yet it's their first job, or their second or for some they're 50 and should be preparing to retire, and they have absolutely no work ethic and no will to work.

I just believe that it should be paid for by the student and some help from their parents. Especially at a young age, start giving the kid some money in a college savings, tell him you'll put in 50cents for every dollar he does.



EDIT:

Also people came to America to work for the "American dream", and to have the opportunity to do so. Not to sit on their ass collecting welfare disability and get free college educations.

I know some people who deserve some of those things, but about 65% of those on it don't deserve it

 

I honestly don't see why this is exactly relevant. What difference will free college make, exactly? Actually, why would someone even go to college (let alone twice) if they have no plans to work? I think there's a major hole in your logic, but I'm having a hard time understanding your point.

People study hard and make it into good colleges. There's no difference as far as academics go. If you're in A+ student, then you'll get into a good college. If it's a public college, then (assuming Bernie's plan is actually implemented) it would be free for people who earned their way to that college. That's Bernie's plan. As far as it goes for students, the only difference when they get out of college is that they don't have the burden of loans that they hope they will be able to pay off.

And boy, do I wish I was as lucky as you. For me, I'm going to a private college, so Bernie's plan really wouldn't change my financial status. Now, my family doesn't really have a lot of money, we're in debt (debt that wasn't even our own fault). I can't rely on my parents to pay for my college, or even help me. If I'm going to push through, I'll need to get a good amount of financial aid and a career that hopefully sets me on a steady track to pay off whatever loans remain. I've saved up a few thousand dollars from my job, and another few thousand throughout my life. But that's definitely not going to be enough to cover the cost.

Assuming you feel confident in paying for it all by yourself, I'd imagine that you're much more financially secure than me.

Perhaps I can't see this point of view because my dad bought my laptop. My parents are divorced and he lives all the way in Philadelphia, so actually getting something from him was a surprise. I've always made sure my laptop is taken care of, and I put it away properly every time I'm done with it. Of course, it's 5 years old and it doesn't work are great as it used to. I've had it repaired, virus removed, kept in a safe spot. I really can't think of a way paying for it myself would change how I treat it.

Again, I don't see what difference free college would make. People who study hard and get good grades will make it into better schools and ultimately better jobs, regardless of how free a college is. And judging by how you described them, I'm assuming they didn't really get into a good school.

Also, did they pay for college? Because now I'm just thinking they the cost of college isn't the issue. They just happen to be lazy people.

What does that even mean?

 

My family is in debt, my parents are divorced, my dad took my mother for everything she had. My dad makes 120k plus a year and hasn't ever done anything for me. I even lived with him during highschool and he wouldn't pay for school cloths or even lunches. Even if he offered money for college I wouldn't accept it. My mom/step dad, and myself all together make too much money for me to get anymore than 500 per semester from financial aid. And as I previously said I do not get any support from any of my parents, it's actually the opposite. The only difference is that I am 20, I have never taken college courses and I have saved money for it and worked very hard. I am going to a very small community two year college to get an AS in Criminal justice, so really it's fairly cheap. It's not going to be anything special to right home to mom about, but it's a start.

I think i'm just unable to clearly put my point across in words, that's my bad.

My whole point is that they are lazy people, and they did not pay for their own college. My point is that we have whole generation of people who are getting college degrees but no real work experience.

They have a college degree, but no will to work. My way of thinking is that if they actually have to work to get a college degree and set that money aside instead of buying a brand new jacked up pickup truck, or the latest xbox, they really actually want it, and they will take meaning from their education and not just a piece of paper they think will help them sit in a chair and make 100k a year.

 

No.

 

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2016 ---

is germany aloud to have an army? i'm probably wrong i just think i remember reading that they can't. they just have forces in NATO or something

 

This really seems anecdotal, especially since the entire "lazy welfare" schtick has been pushed by Republicans, and it's simply not true. Most people currently on welfare are elderly or children, who cannot work. On top of that, most people on welfare that can work, do. They work jobs like McDonalds, or Walmart, or a gas station, or a factory. If you want to prevent the lazy from abusing our welfare system, I would push for a much higher minimum wage, considering how much welfare is given to these massive corporations to subsidize the paultry wages they are paying their employees.

Keeping in mind that Sander' education plan does not call for arbitrarily paying for everyone's college. There will be a standard one must meet to in order to receive these benefits. Which means people will not be in college, doing nothing forever, and getting it paid for. Outside of the "I had to do it" rhetoric, I believe you're missing the point. It's absurd to expect people who try to get a college education to pay for those loans for decades after. That is a system that is not functioning correctly, in my opinion. Can you imagine when public schooling first came around, and where we would be if everyone had said "Well I had to pay for my schooling, so you can too".

But speaking on jobs, as you know, we're screaming towards a globalized world, and not only will higher education make our workforce much more competitive in our own economy, but the economy of the entire world. It will also lead to further innovation that our country comes up with.

I believe it's time we push forward and extend public education to encompass all levels of education.

I also believe it does not matter what you do, or anyone you know does. What matters is moving forward, what is the absolute best step we can take? I think that educating our population as much as we can can only lead to a better, more robust country, and economy.

Edit: If you have any data on people being lazy simply to be lazy as you've used repeatedly in your arguments, I'd like to see it.

 

@Deinen Out of curiosity, wouldn't raising the minimum wage also cause more inflation where the price of items and the minimum wage would be in comparison the same to before the minimum wage was raised? If no, please explain because I am actually fairly confused on this matter. I would really like a higher minimum wage but it wouldn't make sense if prices were raised too. Thanks alot in advance