Bernie Sanders

What do you think of his ideas/policies? Do you think he would make a good president? Why or why not?
Discuss.

 

Bernie Sanders is an idiot. He thinks money grows on trees and that everything should be free.

Free college? Who the hell do you think is paying for that? That's Right, people that work hard and actually make money.

He even goes as far as saying that taxing the upper middle class and above 92% isn't out of the picture. How stupid can someone get?
The idiots that vote for him...

You've got to be kidding me if you think he is somewhat reasonable.

Complete Retard

 

Though I like how he has specific plans I don't like them and I don't support him as president (in fact, I actually don't know who I'll vote for president). Basically he has very left, socialist ideal. When one is far left or right, there's always problems due to their overzealousness, and sometimes radical views of their particular side. His plans aren't organized in priority order and there are holes in them (how will the gov. get the money and so on.) Also not to mention republicans control the other branches so his laws aren't likely going to pass. I haven't read in detail his plans but far left socialism (what he is) is basically soft communism. It looks great on paper, sounds great, but in reality it doesn't work.

I also heard he says he wants to raise the minimum wage to $15... I'm personally against that. Businesses would have to cut jobs to make up for labor cost and possibly move out of the country for the cheaper labor. Plus minimum wage isn't meant to be a profession, it's meant more for as a part-time job, first time job, or some highschooler/college student job.

Also for presidency... IDK.. His health is an issue. President is one of the more stressful jobs. With his age I'm not sure if he can handle that, he sounds like he's about to give out anytime.

 

He believes in democratic socialism, which is working great in many other countries. However, the debate is whether it would work in this country with this many people and this economy.

These aren't the only issues, you know. You haven't even mentioned other things such as environmental issues, gun control, or abortion. On those, I can say he seems very reasonable.

 

Hm I'd have to do research on how other countries are coping with democratic socialism. Though every country is different and has different situations/factors.

On environmental issues, I'm not sure of Bernie's stance but I believe we're screwed if countries don't work together to limit pollution and such. So yes I believe climate change and global warming is a thing.

Gun control, I'm more pro gun. So i disagree with Sanders' stance. Those crazy people that shoot up places don't follow rules, they won't follow "no gun here" rules. Though responsible gun owners who do follow rules will be exposed at those "gun free" zones. Though I agree with more screening before purchase of a gun.

Abortion - I'm more pro life. I believe in cases like rape the women should be allowed to choose but if you chose not to use any contraceptive method and not want babies but yet get pregnant then that's your fault, you can't just kill fetuses/potential babies left and right. Bernie is all pro-choice so I disagree on his stance on this.

 

Sanders focuses very much on climate change. He has repeatedly called it the greatest threat facing us. So, he would agree with you on that.
On everything else, while I don't completely agree with you, I'm glad to see you're more independent. It's good to not blindly follow one candidate or party no matter what they say.

 

This is factually incorrect. Socialism is not communism.

 

Which country has this ever worked in, or is working in currently?

 

Free public high school? Who the hell do you think is paying for that? That's Right, people that wor k hard and actually make money.

Darn socialist high schools. It's such a shame that high schoolers today are just GIVEN their opportunities. We need to make them work hard at minimum wage jobs and enter life in debt they can barely pay.

I miss the good old days when families struggled to send their kids to high school.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 21, 2016 ---

Sorry, but I don't think you actually ever looked at his tax plan.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2016 ---

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Having a hard time understanding how you can call someone who fought for civil rights in the 1960's, voted against the Iraq War AND predicted many of it's consequences (like the government not sustaining itself, others countries thinking it's okay to annex other countries such as Russia with Ukraine/Crimea, the people starting an uprising and getting out of control), and rejects money from people and corporations known to do 'questionable' practices a "retard".

Quite frankly, I have to question if you even know anything about Bernie Sanders besides the word "socialist" that you probably see on your who-the-hell-knows-where-you-get-your-information-from sources.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2016 ---

Sweden and Denmark to name a few.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2016 ---

He has a pretty comprehensive tax plan. It's all available on his website if you ever want to check it out. Cost isn't so much a worry. I would hardly call him a radical. He's been an independent most of his time in congress and his views align fairly well with the Democratic Party. As for soft communism, he's far from it.

$15 minimum wage is a part where I agree with you on. It should be raised but not to $15. Though, I really don't think he would manage to get it that high anyways.

He's only 5 years older than Donald Trump. Many congressmen work till their 80's. He could serve 2 full terms and be 83, which is a time where many congressmen start retiring.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2016 ---

You may be surprised to find out Bernie Sanders isn't as left-leaning on gun control as most Democrats are. Some even criticize him because he has supported pro-gun bills in the past.

 

http://imgur.com/ldfMapT, just because you have it doesn't mean it's working.

 

Yet, Denmark somehow manages to be ranked the happiest country in the world. Sweden being a close second. And several of the next happiest countries are either democratic socialist also or have democratic socialist tendencies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

 

They wouldn't be if they were invaded due to no protection from the United States military. If our economy was that screwed up we would not be able to pay for our military and therefore the whole world would be threatened. Denmark does not have to worry about many issues thanks to the wealth of the United States so they can afford to pull off something like democratic socialism.

 

Didn't you just tell me democratic socialism is not working in Denmark?

 

It is not working well for their economy, but they can still do it. When I say not working, I don't mean their economy is going to completely collapse tomorrow, I mean it it is not nearly close to the potential their economy can be. The immense government interference limits economic growth. I will also repeat myself again in saying if there was no protection from the United States military they would have to worry about succumbing to other nations as their economy cannot support even a small military. Why is the United States so wealthy and able to support such a large force, you may ask? It's simple. We are a capitalist society with small government interference in the market. Democratic Socialism multiplies the governments involvement in the market, only interfering with its growth. Is this really something we need? More government in our lives? More control over our every move and everything we do? People who worked for what they have suddenly put in the position where more and more is taken from them? Not only does democratic social not work, it is the complete and udder opposite of the American dream.

 

Why does the US even need to spend so much on military? We have the strongest military in the world by a landslide and plenty of strong allies.

Also, a reason I support Bernie Sanders isn't that I expect the US to go full on democratic socialist. I don't expect ourselves to go to 68% income tax and what not. The main argument here isn't whether or not socialism is bad. The argument is how much socialism we need. And quite frankly, I think the US can use just a little bit more socialism. Some of the largest banks are so powerful, if they fail then they trigger an economic recession. Why do we let the private sector have so much influence that they have both, politics and the economy, in the palm of their hands? Maybe we need just a little bit more government interference just to prevent disasters.

People will still work to achieve more wealth. They will still have motivation to actually do stuff and not be lazy. However, we aren't going to turn a blind eye to absurd things people will do because there's no rules in place to prevent them from doing so. Greed is part of human nature. In moderation, it's good for a booming economy and a working class. But without some sort of limit or control, then those on top will use the poor and defeat any chance for others to have a fair shot in the markets.

Sorry if my posts are starting to seem broken. It's 1 AM and I'm about to fall asleep.

 

What Jala is saying about no military protection is 100% right, pretty sure that if we weren't strong allies of America, Russia would invade us tomorrow, due to our position at the opening of the Baltic Sea. The Military has said openly in Denmark quite a few times that they would not be able to defend us from anything. Basically all the Danish military is good for is sending what little equipment they have down to the UN peacekeeping force, who are a joke anyway.

I'm gonna reply to some points of that imgur post, because it is bad.

That school teacher the post is based around? A god damn Danish TV show... Great source, @whoever made it. The statistic that most people will never own a house? That is because Denmark is such a small country, majority of the population rents apartments in the city. Living in the country, I don't know anyone who doesn't own a house. It isn't a matter of high personal debt, but a lifestyle.

The suicide statistic is useless, it includes Greenland, and they are 90% of that statistic. God knows why so many Greenlanders commit suicide, but that's the way it is.
11% on anti depressants? Don't believe it for a second, Denmark really is one of the happiest countries in the world. The average Dane starts work at 8, has a pretty relaxed day, and goes home at 4.

We don't get paid to learn, ok, we get a bit from the Government if we meet a mile long requirement list. Most people get a tiny bit while in University. However it's so small, I definitely wouldn't say we "get paid to learn"

We don't pay $10 per gallon of gasoline, we pay just under 5

 

You do realize that a democratic socialism government is also capitalism? You also know that Denmark, like other small European countries have a small army because they don't need a major one.

What about England, France, or Germany? They are democratic socialists with strong armies.

Please source facts supporting your points, because they used the same regulation argument in the 1900s when children were working and dying on factories.

 

ANYONE BUT TRUMP

 

The policies Bernie proposes are not new, have been tried by a number of Western democracies (in some cases, by us), and the results speak for themselves. The people practicing democratic socialism have been demonstrated by numerous international studies to enjoy less poverty, less crime, better health, longer lives, and more happiness... and that last bit should make one take notice, since we're talking about some places where the sun doesn't rise for part of the year.

Ask all the conservative states how conservative economics works out. They're generally the poorest states and a net negative drain on federal dollars, and this is not a coincidence. Kansas went all-in on Reaganomics recently, and just this morning I read about how small businesses there are asking the state to please raise their taxes. Bobby Jindal ran Louisiana for many years while staying true to the no-new-taxes pledge, and now the budget is in such a calamitous state that they actually elected a Democrat as governor to clean up the mess.

Isn't that the pattern? We elect Republicans, they create disasters, and then we elect Democrats to clean up the mess. The economic disaster of Reaganomics has not yet been cleaned up at the national level, and cleaning that up is basically Bernie's platform.

The question of whether we need some socialism has been answered and is not a topic for intelligent debate, and the only question remaining is how much is necessary. Why not use the New Deal as a starting point? Conservatives love to point out the 50s as a time we need to get back to. The economic prosperity of the 50s was directly caused by the economic policies of the FDR administration. The US economy was strongest at the same time we had a national peak in socialist policies. Not a coincidence.

"But-but-but... war!!", says the ill-informed conservative, not realizing the connection between war, the New Deal, and Keynesian economics in general.

Reaganomics has taken a wrecking ball to the New Deal, and here we are with higher poverty and less opportunity than at any time since WWII. Again, not a coincidence.

A vote for Bernie is a vote of no-confidence in the failed theory of Reaganomics and a necessary first step in a potential return to the status of the US as a land of opportunity.