To gun, or not to gun?

I'm all for background checks at gun shows and I do find it foolish that they are not performed. I DO NOT support banning "assault weapons" or any type of gun for that matter. What really bugs me is the lack of consistency on the president's part. He goes on and on about how not all Muslims are terrorists just because a few are "bad apples" but you know, when you want to further your own political agenda its perfect to hold all gun owners accountable for such a small minority that are crazy.

 

Well said.

 

The ignorance... That was a single incident in Tasmania, where, if you were to have done any prior research, would know is probably the state with the most easily available guns since many people live there for the country lifestyle and hunting. You were also being deliberately ignorant in order to make me look stupid. So please just... SAFO

 

Negates 0% of what I said about it.

Negates 0% of what I said about it.

Negates 0% of what I said about it.

Damn, you're really good at this, aren't you? Come back with an argument please.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2015 ---

Tasmania, Australia, you mean?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2015 ---

Homicide rates in Australia. You'll see they've been following the same general trend since 1990, and that trend wasn't affected all that much post 2000.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2015 ---

So you're position is: Allow only 'safe' people to buy any gun they want?

To go along with that, convicted felons can't purchase firearms, but what if the nature of their crime wasn't violent? There are ways to get around it, but instead of wasting everyone's time, shouldn't we just reduce it to violent crimes? I mean, why bar them from guns if they never hurt anyone?

 

Stop argueing against me and start debating the topic. All you said was pretty much 'these idiots have no idea about gun safety', which doesn't even relate the the link to the Port Arthur massacre that you provided me - from Wikipedia of all places, how reliable. I'm completely entitled to my opinions, you are completely entitled to yours. But this isn't a thread about slamming Australians who believe that having a homicide rate of 4x less than America is a good thing because we control who gets to shoot bullets off in every which way.

I guess the real issue here is that gun control in America has gone past the point of help, since almost everyone seems to have some sort of firearm.

 

I didn't really get into much detail but it would be dependent on the crime. If someone assaulted someone and another got arrested or detained for some stupid reason then I see no point in refusing a gun sale.

 

Have you even looked at this thread?

Yeah. The people who are scared of guns because they're dangerous don't know how to be safe around guns.
It's ironic.

That's from Sydney, in case you were wondering.

You brought this on yourself...
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/p...ting-spree-changed-australia-gun-laws-n396476'
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/port-arthur-massacre-in-australia
http://www.nma.gov.au/online_features/defining_moments/featured/port_arthur_massacre
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/port_arthur.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/archives/80days/stories/2012/01/19/3412072.htm
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...is-pregnant-wife/story-fni0cx12-1227285852951
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ck-football-20-years-massacred-35-people.html
http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/11/2671.abstract
https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Port_Arthur_massacre
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre

Still think it's a conspiracy?

Do you know what a debate forum is for?

No, the real problem is that people like you think that this is an issue. Show me the numbers.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2015 ---

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...is-pregnant-wife/story-fni0cx12-1227285852951
What I find terribly sad is that this off-duty cop found the guy, and managed to go warn others to get away, thereby saving some lives, as others were shot. Just think about it. If he had had a sidearm, he could have saved even more people.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2015 ---

And a population density 11x less. It has been shown that population density has a positive correlation with crime rate. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2011/resources/variables-affecting-crime


https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com...e-gun-free-uk-is-800-of-the-heavily-armed-us/

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2015 ---

As I am the one who created this thread, I think I know better than anyone else what it is about.

 

Okay, so what you're saying is, you're bad at evaluating sources. That explains why so many of yours are so unreliable.

Recruit training for USN/USAF/USCG involves pointing a 9mm at a piece of paper and pulling the trigger. They don't even keep score. The exercise is for small arms familiarization only.

Fail.

You've obviously missed an important point there, because Mexico has fairly strict gun control, and all their criminals are getting their guns from us.

http://www.insightcrime.org/news-briefs/san-diego-university-study-mexico-gun-trafficking-us

 

Honestly the US should make their gun control system like Canada's, In Canada you have to have a firearms liscence or (PAL) which you must take a course to get. To purchase or posess guns. Also you are not allowed to carry in public. In america anyone who is legal age to purchase a gun can buy one no matter if they know how to use it or not .

 

Actually, they only looked at guns they could trace. And how easy is it to trace a gun in a first world country vs some other countries? https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

I don't think you can read my mind. If you can, well, good for you.

Well, they probably learn how to clean/maintain it too, and learn about safety, but I see your point.

 

I'm a big gun guy, I like to look at them, learn about them, how the work, how they look, learn their names. But guns being legal isn't really what I agree with.

They provide safety why? If they weren't legal in the first place, then there wouldn't need to be a gun for safety.

Killing animals by hunting? No, not my thing, I don't even know how people enjoy such a thing, a range, okay, I agree with that, that is fun.

But the people with guns started a crime.

In my opinion, you guys might disagree, but I say there should be guns at ranges for people to use because as you said, in a range, it would be a fun bonding activity.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2015 ---

Or we could all do this.

 

Nope. There's no cleaning or care. They fire their rounds when their turn comes, and depending on their specialty, they may never pick one up again in their entire military careers.

 

Therefore it's wrong? I'm sorry, but you don't get the final say on what if fun.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2015 ---

You assume that guns can only be used against other guns (in which case they still provide more safety than not having a gun), and you assume that all violent crimes are committed with guns. Guns are not legal in mexico (or at least, they're heavily, heavily restricted), and yet cartels still obtain military grade weapons (which they couldn't have gotten from the U.S., since they're illegal here @NuckleMuckle).

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/myth-3-25-million-defensive-gun-uses-each-year-cant-be-accurate

 

I'm not saying always. And I'm not assuming guns are used against other guns only. They can be used in many ways but there would be less of a risk is what I'm trying to say.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2015 ---

Did I say it's wrong? I said it's not my thing, and I don't understand how people enjoy killing animals. Did I say it's wrong? Did I say it's not fun? I'm sorry, I gave my opinion.

 

why use a Weapon if Fear is the greatest ever?
Anyways i prefer close combat over guns. If i have to physically hurt someone I want them to be able to walk away from it and to see their face...

 

Agreed. Don't kill them though, just hurt them so they don't mess with you again.

 

That sucks. Well there ya go.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2015 ---

Your opinion doesn't carry a lot of weight. Sorry.

Guy with a knife jumps you in the street. You have a handgun. What do you do?

 

One of two things, depending on your choices:

1) You put your hands up, he takes your wallet AND your weapon, which he uses against his next victim.
2) You go for your weapon, end up laying in a pool of your own blood. He takes your wallet AND your weapon, which he uses against his next victim.

You did say the guy jumps you, after all. Element of surprise wins. He's not going to wait for you to fumble for your concealed holster, unsnap the securing strap, pull the weapon, chamber a round, and double-check the safety.

This is a blueprint of how "responsible gun owners" are arming criminals all the time. Another example... I must have read a smaller-scale version of this story once every couple of months in my local news for the last 8 years: http://www.news4jax.com/community/c...tolen-from-cars-in-jacksonville-since-january

And finally: how many mass shootings in the US have you read about where the shooters either purchased their guns legally, got a straw buyer to buy them for them, or stole them from a close family member who bought them legally? The correct answer is "nearly all of them."

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2015 ---

I don't know how you define "military grade weapons", but I can buy an AK-47 without any issues. It's the most widely-used military rifle in the world. I can also buy an AR-15. An AR-15 is basically an M-16 without fully-automatic mode. It would be illegal to modify an AR-15 to have fully-automatic capability, but it can be done. Another fun gun would be the MP-40. It was the submachine gun of choice for the Nazi Wehrmacht. Or if you want to go beyond the submachine gun category, there's the STG-44, the Wehrmacht's assault rifle of choice.

I'm not going to post ads here, but I found all of these weapons available to me on one website, from my very first google hit. I would consider every one of them to be "military grade weapons."

 

Yes, perhaps jumped was not the correct analogy. I meant more like this:
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015...sed-concealed-handgun-shoots-would-be-robber/ orthis

http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/intended-knockout-game-victim-shoots-back/

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2015 ---

Stuff like rocket launchers and light machine guns. And the occasional heavy machine gun. 'Actual' assault rifles (like m4's). That kind of thing. "The third category of weapons encountered in Mexico is military-grade ordnance not generally available for sale in the United States or Mexico. This category includes hand grenades, 40 mm grenades, rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), automatic assault rifles and main battle rifles and light machine guns."
https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

Ak's aren't the gun of choice for cartels. And yeah you can, but they shoot like crap. The main reasons the military of different countries like them are 1) they're cheap and easy to manufacture and 2) they never stop working. Ever.

Yeah. That fully auto makes a difference, (take it from an airsofter lol).

These are both weapons from wwII (and therefore not as good as things you could get from the military today).

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2015 ---

Okay... And?

 

The point is simple: if so-called "responsible gun owners" weren't so ubiquitous in our society, then lawbreakers wouldn't find it so laughably easy to arm themselves.