Gay Rights

hehe yeh. I knew you'd notice.

 

Yes you did

 

oh no nowadays christians are persecuted for example when i say something intolerent people get mad at me its completely discriminatory to my religious beliefs.

 

@TheDebatheist You can try to pick apart my statements to keep an argument going, but reading from start to finish you're choosing a neutral standpoint just to argue. No thanks.

 

Yes, I am going to deconstruct what you've said. Because this is the 'Debates' section of the forum.

Why is it too much to ask you to address what I'm saying? Why do you proclaim to know what's in my head better than I do, that I'm (apparently) not arguing honestly?

Weeks earlier, you said THIS:

"Keep the debates FRIENDLY while having a FRIENDLY debate. If its a topic youre passionate about, defending it is 100% nessessary. However when your debate won by being rude, it becomes an issue. Shutting down others opinions may be the key to the debate team, but were not a debate server. Were a minecraft server, for kids. Please respect that."

Yet, a moment ago, you said THIS:

"So who gives a crap... Shut up... Unless you sit there on a PC with no friends... so shut up and go outside."

How is ^this^ quote "friendly" and "not rude"? Plus, what grants you the right to not have these forums rules apply to you?

"Not everyone has to care about; your religion, your gay rights, anything."

As said before. That could not be more untrue. I care about religion, gay-rights, and... "anything" [?]. I submit that if you care about others, yourself included, you'd have to care about ideologies that have significant influence worldwide. Religion specifically. Dictating everything from education and politics, to how you treat your raise your kids, and treat your fellow man. I think people *should* care about religion, gay-rights, and... "anything".

 

I'm going to agree with you on this one. Even though Klutch is a cool guy, I think that was little rude, and you're right about caring. These are important things. I care very passionately for LGBT rights. This is an important thread. Even though, it has a few violent homophobes. TheDebatheist has some valid points.

 

Hey stop arguing with people, Jesus Christ the point of a debate is to state your beliefs and that be the end of the discussion, pleb.

 

That's a strong word to pull out of nowhere. What gives you the idea that anyone on this thread is violent?

 

Homosexuality is a sin

 

Nobody contests this (I hope). But, to me, your existence is a sin. Should you be eliminated? (correct answer=no)

 

So is eating shellfish. What's your point?

 

Lol, this is still debated on?

If we based our laws around what people believe to be sinful, and banned every believed sin for no other reason than that it is considered to be a sin by someone, we would live in a horrible society.

There are so many things that we do everyday that some people consider to be sins.

Actually, many people contest it, and for good reason.

Considering that I'm not religious, what is and isn't a sin isn't that relevant to me; however, I had a Christian upbringing, and before my beliefs changed, I had a number of reasons for why I didn't think homosexuality was a sin. For instance, if we view this from a religious perspective, why would God make people homosexual if it was a sin? Science strongly suggests that sexuality is not a choice. So, unlike other sins, this means that homosexuality would be a sin that is impossible to stop. Why would God make people in a way that they are naturally committing a sin that they are completely unable to stop or prevent?

 

Then they're wrong. Homosexuality is a sin, and that is a fact. Whether we should put that into law or not is what the debate is over.
https://carm.org/bible-homosexuality

 

You realize that religious beliefs are opinions, right?

You can't state that a religious opinion is a fact, nor can you link me to a religious article that is based around opinions as proof that it's a fact.

If you want to believe that it's a sin, then that's completely up to you; however, you cannot say that it's a fact, because it's not.

 

They *can* also be facts too. Though each claim brings with it, it's own burden of proof.

It's my opinion that the Earth is a spheroid. It might be your opinion that it isn't. We both have opinions on the shape of the Earth. But one IS a fact.

I don't think you should go down this line, declaring that they're wrong, without justification. Whenever someone makes claims on religious grounds, ask them for justifications. Proof and argumentation. When you claim that 'sin' doesn't exist, or that "X isn't a sin", then you now have a burden of proof. You're making a claim, and you have to back it up. It's much easier (and more sensible, imo) to be agnostic about the issue. So... "I don't believe that sin exists. Can you prove that it does?". Or... "Why should we take your religious beliefs seriously, or as fact?". Don't shout people down. Ask questions, be skeptical, don't assert. Put them on the back foot by pressing them on their claims.

 

Do you know what a sin is?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2015 ---

Not necessarily. He only needs to justify his position that is isn't a sin (negative claim) if I justify my position that it is a sin (positive claim). I already did that, and now he's arguing that what is a sin is dependent on the beliefs of any given person (it isn't). NOW he has to prove that it is.

 

Alright, yes, opinions can also be facts, such as your example relating to the Earth's shape; however, his opinion here is not one that has a side that is a fact.

I'm not claiming that it's not a sin or that sin doesn't exist though. Even though I believe both of those statements, they are not what I'm claiming. I have no burden of proof because I am making no claims; I am simply saying that he can't state his claim as a fact, since it is based solely off of religious opinion.

 

Sin technically doesn't exist if I do not believe in it it's a matter of opinion on an action or habit.

 

sin1
sin/
noun

1. 1.
   an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.
   "a sin in the eyes of God"
   synonyms: immoral act, wrong, wrongdoing, act of evil/wickedness, transgression,crime, offense, misdeed, misdemeanor; More

verb

1. 1.
   commit a sin.
   "I sinned and brought shame down on us"
   synonyms: commit a sin, commit an offense, transgress, do wrong, commit a crime, break the law, misbehave, go astray;
   archaictrespass
   "I have sinned"

In the bible, it says homosexuality is an abomination. The bible is the word of god (divine law). Therefore, homosexuality is a sin.

 

That would work as justification to state that it's a fact that it's a sin IF there was only one religious belief in existence, but that's simply not the case.

There are so, so many different religions, denominations, and personal religious beliefs that contradict with each other and hold different opinions. Even though it is a fact that it's viewed as a sin in the religious beliefs held by some people, it's viewed as not being sinful by other people holding different religious beliefs.

If we were to view this from the perspective that it's been guaranteed that God (Or, at least some type of higher power) does exist, we'd still have no way to know which God it is and which religious viewpoint of that God is the correct one. Because of the fact that the different religions and religious viewpoints hold different opinions on what is and isn't sinful, what we end up believing to be a sin would be dependent on which religion/religious viewpoint we decide (based on our opinion) is the most suitable for us to believe. After that, it would be a fact that we view certain things as sins, but it would not be a fact that they are sins, just our opinion, because we'd have no way to factually know that our opinions are correct.