Gay Rights

I want to correct you on this. We don't 'make' gays equal. We don't have the authority to 'make' anyone equal (in my humble opinion). All we can do is pass laws that discriminate, but that doesn't change their actual equality, that is, if we made slavery legal, slaves would be no less human in actuality, even if they are in society's view.

 

OK, I'm amazed that "gay rights is a thing" were saying like "animal rights" REALLY? It's perfectly natural if you did your homework most animals and other species are homophobic in fact we are the one of the only species that are not homophobic. It's not some choice they woke up with saying, hey you know what I like boys, or I like girls. NO. They were born with it, and not only is it hard enough for them to accept it we have ignorant people like you guys that think its wrong.
I'm religious but with certain things, you only think its wrong because the bible says so. I bet half of you aren't even that religious and hate gay people because u want to and are using that reason as an excuse. If your so strict about the bible then why do you eat bacon, or were teared clothing the bible forbids that!!! Also I don't know were you have been but its 2015 and I know of very few places that still persecute for religions, other than Iraq and Afghanistan which both have ISIS in them.
Give me one valid reason why being gay is bad other than the following crap

1. "Unnatural"
2. Says not to do in bible
3. "disgusting"

You don't know a gay person if you see them, they aren't mean, they aren't racist, they don't do anything to interfere with your life yet you still hate them, I bet your so tunnel vision that after reading this your gonna say "Ya'll need Jesus.
Because our rights don't end when your feelings are offended. Because the bottom line is it's not a choice is a human.

Oh, religion, religion, religion, you crack us up in so many ways. Apparently, in the Bible, gay marriage is sin. Yet, selling your kids into slavery is fine. And I'm guessing most of you live in the USA so then you know america was based off freedom of privacy speech and religion, and have you ever stopped to think that maybe not all gay people are christian? In which case you are basically a cult putting down other religions because yours is better.

People who are against same-sex marriage say that it should not be legalized so as “to protect traditional marriage and the traditional family”. Protect it from what, of course? What is so dangerous about same sex marriage that we have to protect “normal” marriage? Same sex marriage isn’t a war. Same sex marriage is basically like any other “normal” marriage. It’s an expression of one’s love for another. Marriage isn’t exactly the same as it used to be, either. Mixed marriage used to be illegal. The American Psychological Association supports homosexuality and same sex marriage. They believe that same sex marriage is perfectly natural. Also, it is important for mental health that same sex couples be given the same rights, benefits, and responsibilities as heterosexual couples. Research by the APA has also shown that marriage provides substantial psychological and physical health benefits due to the moral, economic and social support extended to married couples. Conversely, recent empirical evidence has illustrated the harmful psychological effect of policies restricting marriage rights for same-sex couples. Additionally, children raised by same-sex couples have been shown to be on par with the children of opposite-sex couples in their psychological adjustment, cognitive abilities and social functioning. Other opponents argue that children are safer in “normal” marriages. A topic debate is the effects on children that are raised by same sex couples. Marriage protects children and gives them certain benefits. Denying same sex couples marriage sometimes denies their children the medical and insurance benefits given to children of standard couples. Studies show that children raised by same sex couples are well adjusted and happy. Kids need good role models and loving parents. Gender is a factor in neither of those needs. Here was an article written by a kid raised by a same sex couple, explaining more on how there really isn’t a difference between same sexes coupled families and normal families.

You should really stop to look at things and think before you act out in hate

(I'm not gay don't know anyone that's gay (not that that's a problem) and am christian

 

God dammit, did you read other comments? Is that me who started talking ''sex''? I just said gay is disgusting @!$!% and a kid came and comment: ''So don't sex with them.'' And a bunch of his friends came and ''criticize'' me. Why you guys so freaking blind?

WHY YOU GUYS BLIND? I AM NOT THE IDIOT WHO STARTED ''SEX'' COMMENT!!

 

I'll leave it at this: As long as your beliefs don't triumph over the rights of others, then feel free to keep your convictions and believe what you want.

 

Yet you worship and hold dear the same book that promotes these disgusting ideas.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see that you're willing to reject the abhorrent texts in your holy book that conflict with your humanity. Brilliant! But it's the moderates like you that provide cover for the extremists. Defending and worshiping the same book that they use to justify their ass-backwards beliefs and violent actions.

 

I look at it like this, we all belive in something. That something can be religion, freedom, scientologi or even just that you belive in nothing. Judging a whole group because some people in that group dose something is not the right thing to do. And they are not providing cover for them, people that are high up in that community has stated that they take no part of terror and they want nothing to do with the people that dose it.

There are people out there today that are fighting the people that belive in the same book but have a totally diffrent understandings of that book. A good example of this is the war in Iraq were muslims are fighting isis with the help of multible other nations. They are fighting the war we are afraid of fighting so stateing that the whole entire group is terrorists is not true.

You have to qoute a group on the majoritise action not the minority.

 

Another big part that i really dislike is people that try to force their belives on to others. In my opinion that is terrorism on its highest even if it is from religion, culture or anything els that has to do with a mindset. We are people, takeing away the right from someone to think for themselfs is the biggest offence that someone can do to someone els. This is just my opinions on the matter.

Sorry for derailing a little bit. Let's get back on the matter.

 

Atheism is not the belief in nothing. It's the LACK of belief in something. They're not one and same.

Please don't compare religion with freedom. One is a rigid ideology. A fixed doctrine with rules and guidelines. "The belief in freedom" is so broad, it can mean many things, and in most cases and definitions, it is a human-right.

I'm not doing entirely that, though.

I'm judging Christianity, by the actions that Christians do in it's name. Actions that they claim to do in the name of Christ, and upon a further examination of the religion? We find support for those actions too.

I think it says a lot about the people in this group, that do/say nothing when others commit atrocities in the name of their group. Have you even heard of the saying, "A man can be judged by the company he keeps.".

E.g. If I were a member of an organisation/group that had repeatedly covered up child-molestation cases, I would either leave or seek to reform the organisation. Because I care, DEEPLY, about rape and child-abuse. If I care about my organisation too, all the more reason to do something about it.

If Catholics care about their group (and the public perception of it) Why don't we see more of them speaking out in the thousands of cases of child-molestation in the Catholic church? Similarly, why don't we see more people speaking out about Christians using the Bible/Christianity to commit egregious human-rights offenses?

You've already eluded to this fact. You JUST told me that it was unfair to judge a whole group, because of the fringe. That is exactly what I'm saying. The majority of moderates protect legitimate criticism and reform of your religion, and of the minority of serious offenders.

What is to stop someone from making a similar argument... "Well, most racists life peaceful lives. They don't cause trouble. I think it's unfair for you to attack/criticise racism because most racists can assimilate peacefully!". I don't care. Racism is responsible for large amounts of suffering in the world. The same goes for Christianity.

So if the majority of Nazis were peaceful people, you would accept that Nazism was a peaceful ideology?

 

Never stated that xD

But that is kinda like juding a whole group for something one person did. Example: judging everyone that plays videogames, because one person did a insane school shooting. And used videogames to excercise before he/her did that.

And i kinda think it is unfair to judge every christian for something one person/2% did. There are so manny christians that are agianst this kind of stuff and they live a life were they accept other peoples belifes. But there will allways be those that try to force their belifes on others, but they are only a smal part of christianity.

human right offenses. Well lets get going then, if we are going to judge a whole group for what a few people did then why should we not judge the whole US for what George W Bush did in iraq. For oil he slaugtherd 600-900 thousand iraq people. 60 000 was military. So with your logic the rest of the world should put everyone in the us up for war trials because you were a part of the group that targeted hospitals with bombs and carpet bombed a city that had their military laying in ruins after the UN advance before the US invation. Nuclear Weapons, all the reports were faked by the CIA because people like G W Bush wanted a reason to invade Iraq for the oil and money involved.

I do not want people that molest children to walk free. I want them to be triled and jailed. But i do not judge a whole group for what one person did. What if one person from a group stated that they would kill someone in the us. Should their whole familiy be put up for trils and jailed?

People can have their opinions as long as they do not force them on others. An example on this is gay rights, some people want to let them be able to get married in a church wile other dosen't. I understand bought sides of the case, and it is up to the community to decide what is right for their community. And no, i do not think nazism should exist. The main reason i think so is that Nazism makes a group of people in to a hate objekt and it brought people together in the wrong way. With rage and anger people came together, people weren't thinking straight and one of the main reasons for that was what happend after the first world war. People lost hope because germany had to pay for all the damage done in that war. When a person like Hitler came along with a way to change the life of all the people that was then in poverty in germany. Of course the german people voted him true as a leader for their nation, they didn't think about what ideologi that was behind him. All they were thinking about was how they could get their next meal for the week.

A monstrosity like that will never happen agian, and the reason for that is that people today can talk to eachother all over the world. It dosen't matter were you live.

 

So... no, not everyone had the kind of the beliefs you do. Some of us reject superstition. If you can point out anything in my life that I believe for bad reasons, or take on 'faith'? Guess what? I'll stop believing it!

No way. Let me give you a better example.

Example: Is it fair to judge a group of video gamers that specifically love one particular game? (Let's call it "Call of Christ") One that promotes violence, misogyny and homophobia. Then, every year, we see players of "Call of Christ" commit acts of violence, misogyny and homophobia, and admit that they got these ideas FROM the video-game. We take a look at the video-game, and sure enough, it DOES promote these things. Not only that, but people that don't play "Call of Christ" don't commit anywhere near the number of atrocities than those that do. Then, when we ask the majority of CoC players to condemn the minority violence of people that also play their game. Sadly, they refuse to condemn it. All, while praising the game itself, that influenced so many harmful, violent and barbaric attacks in it's name.

Because we have a good cause --> effect relationship between the game and the violence, we SHOULD look into it. Just as we should, for Christianity.

I'm judging Christianity specifically, not all Christians. Ideas =/= people. Though I do think it's fair to judge (less so, obviously) those that still support a book that promotes the attacks that we see from the minority.

Sigh. Because not all Americans supported George Bush, or his decision to go into Iraq.

Those that knew what was going to happen, and still supported an invasion of Iraq? Yes. Judge them, negatively. They are similar to your Bible-bashing (though non-violent) Christians that support homophobia, racism, slavery etc as promoted in the Bible.

Those that did NOT support the invasion of Iraq, but still supported George Bush? Despite him being a massive d**che, by invading Iraq? That's like you and the Bible. You see and know of all the harm that your religion causes, yet you still support it.

Americans that don't support the invasion of Iraq, or Bush, don't have any blame to carry for the invasion of Iraq. Similarly, non-Christians have no blame for the violent and harmful actions of Christians in the name of Christianity.

No! Listen, man. I want the ideologies and organisations that are responsible for the covering up and influencing of child-molestation cases. I want the ideas and groups to be held accountable. That's not controversial, surely?

Why is it up to non-members of this group, to try and reform it? If members of this group truly cared about child-molestation, why don't we see more of THEM taking a stand and changing the organisation from the inside?

Catholics, by definition, support a criminal organisation. Do I think they should be put in jail? Not necessarily, no. I just want them to be morally accountable for their apathy for child-molestation cases. Just as you should be, for failing to speak up (in cases that do so) when Christianity at large is at fault.

That's the 'Appeal to Popularity' fallacy, or Moral Relativism. Just because most people think something is moral, doesn't mean that it is moral, or that it's what we should do.

If 60% of a community wants all black people to be executed, is that fair? What if 60% of the community wants to ban homosexuality, or inter-racial couples? Equality IS all about protecting the minority from the whims of the majority.

Huh. What other ideology reminds me of that, I wonder?

I'll take a bet with you, right now. Who was responsible for more deaths in the last century? Nazism, or Christianity?

 

Well everybody has their own opinions and I respect yours, But I'm going to have to disagree with you. Let me give you this, If homosexuality is wrong, Why are people homosexual? It's not a choice, trust me I know.

 

You don't HAVE to, you know?

I hear this line a lot, and it puzzles me. I do not respect homophobic beliefs. I respect people, sure. Individuals, yeah. But not bad ideas. Not outdated, unscientific and bigoted ideas.

As much as I agree, "Trust me, I know" is not going to convince anyone. What if he said... "Homosexuality is a choice. Trust me, I know.".

We can do so much better than "trust me", anyway. Look at all the science that shows that it isn't a choice. How sexuality develops at the age of 2 or 3 years old. Twin studies that show a genetic component to sexuality. How almost every mammal in the Animal Kingdom shows homosexuality at similar rates that we see in humans (around 5%, iirc). Some animals even form lifelong homosexual partners. Sounds familiar, eh?

 

Good, good point. Not sure why I said "trust me", but I know why I said I respect your opinion. I say that hoping that the people aren't as harsh. I'm sure you know this, but sometimes in a disagreement, people will call me all kinds of terrible words and I hope that saying that may soften their reactions, Knowing that I was simply stating my opinion as they are.

 

Well their you go that is the end of the convo That is the same in christianity and the same goes for every other group out there. Hate fuels hate.

And btw i am Agnostic in my belifes

 

Did you even read my expansion on that?

You're a Christian, that supports Christianity and defends the Bible despite many people doing horrific things BECAUSE of it.

There are many George Bush supporters, that defend him and his policies, despite many people being harmed BECAUSE of the horrific things that he did as president.

Those that DIDN'T support Bush, or his invasion into Iraq? That's like me. I don't support Christianity or the Bible. I condemn both the cruel religious holy books, AND those that use these passages to do harm. You don't.

You don't like the idea of going into Iraq, yet you're still a huge Bush supporter.
You don't like the idea of people using the Bible to do harm, yet you're still a big supporter of Christianity and the Bible.

 

I am agnostic derp. I just don't like when people go out and bash a group and state that they are basicly worse then ISIS that is the same as stating that they are terrorists xD

 

And remember the US goverment even protects him today. If he had been the leader of another country he would have been put up for human war crimes and the killing of 900 000 people.

 

The fact is that the world will never be fair to everyone. Remember if you are alive there is a 100% chance that someone els tookyour place on the chopping board and that will never change.

People are horrible, we do stuff that is cruel. The thing humanity is best at is killing other humans.

 

You know this means not believing in something, right?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 5, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 5, 2015 ---

Who are you referring to?

 

Okay, I think you can support someone or a belief even though there's a few contradictions. Muslims can condemn ISIS. Christians can condemn the KKK. Even some Bush supporters can condemn the Iraq war (I don't see why they would want to still support Bush, but they still can). Being raised in a Christian household, I don't mind Christianity at all. Granted, I'm not fully convinced it's the right religion, but I'm not going to go completely anti-Christian because there's some nasty history behind it and some of its followers.

If I went ahead and condemned everyone and every belief because of a few things I can't agree with, I honestly don't know what or who I would support.