Is God real?

And just because something is offensive doesn't make it wrong.

 

Don't you mean "Chickmate"?

 

Might I start off by saying thank you for this part, I hope that everyone follows it!

No evidence? Go discover evidence for yourself. See it in a baby's laugh, in the happiness of a puppy, in the face of true love. If you want more than just lovey dovey stuff, explain how the universe was created from nothing. Think back to infinity. How did the first matter come into existence? How did anything ever come into existence? Also, the fact that all the scientific laws work so well together! What's to say that in a different universe, matter repels instead of being pulled together? Something had to make everything, and the properties of everything, and they work so well together to make life. I'm sorry if I'm rambling or not making sense, 6 hrs of sleep with school just starting isn't fun...

If we were given all the knowledge, what would life be? If we didn't have the drive to discover (or at least survive), humanity would have died as soon as it started! Also, what leads to the belief that knowledge leads to peace? The knowledge of how to make a weapons doesn't lead to peace. It is the temptations of Lucifer that lead to despair. If you would like examples of this, it would only take a few minutes to think of them! Why can't he stop a plane from crashing down? It was their time. They served their purpose of being sent down to earth. He is calling them back to heaven to be rewarded.

I think I found your website atleast for the numbers that God killed here. Reading through, almost all of the numbers that God has killed (20,000,000) were from the Flood and Noah's Ark. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the story, but here it goes:

The world was corrupt and evil. This was the doings of Lucifer. There was only one truly Christian. It belonged to Noah. God instructed Noah to build an ark that could fit 2 of every animal, and told Noah that he was going to flood the world with waters from the heavens. Noah followed God's instructions. He built the Ark in 120 years. The whole time, he was mocked and criticized for doing so. The entire time that he was building, Noah offered to anyone who helped a spot on the Ark. No one accepted. In the end, Noah, 2 of every animal, and his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth, together with their wives, were brought aboard to be saved from the Deluge to repopulate the Earth. The entire 120 years that Noah spent building the Ark, he would have taken anyone. All they had to do was believe in God's word.

Story time over! That is where most of the deaths come from. Most of the others were from Moses trying to get to get the Pharaoh to "let my people go". These resulted because the Pharaoh was stubborn and corrupted by power (Lucifer). Also, you mention Lucifer's numbers? I might have just missed it on the website, but if you got it from a different one, could you post the URL? Thanks!

Faith in different beliefs causes all of this. if everyone were one religion, and one belief, all of our problems would be solved. You have Muslim extremists crashing planes into buildings, shooting down children at schools, posting the execution of American citizens because they are... Christian. What if I'm wrong with what I believe? What if the Greeks are right? No religion is perfect by the world's standards. In the Koran, Muslims are instructed to kill those who aren't of the same religion, and are told that this will increase their rewards in Muslim heaven. One last thing before I post, all of your criticisms go towards Christianity, not all religions that study "god" in general or separately.
Btw good luck on the debate m8!

 

Most of his criticism is towards Christianity because it is rare to come across a Muslim on meepcraft, and sligtly in America.
And beauty is not evidence for God, because we can already describe a lot of the universe without God. And when you say think back to the first cell, why does there have to be a first cell?

 

okay fair nuff, just thought that it might improve upon his debate to include other religions thanks for bringing that to my attention

 

I think many theologians would disagree with you. It's because Christianity has been forced to change along with secular societies. People warping Christian texts to mean different things in 'context'. Where most Christians don't even go to church, don't know what's in the Bible, and definitely don't have a literal interpretation of their holy texts. Change, allowing a non-literal view to accommodate for what we learn about the world? That's why it's survived compared to other religions.

I think it also has a huge thing to do with 'giving answers to hard questions'. Not honest answers, or correct answers. But answers that make people feel happy and worry less about the problems mortality brings.

What beliefs in Xtianity are so popular?

1) The belief in a a cosmic karma. 2) The ability to have your mistakes forgiven easily. 3) An eternal afterlife, easing fears of death. 4) etc etc

Not to mention, they tell you that you're sick and order you on divine command to be well again. You're a sinful reprobate, and all you need to do is give your entire life to a being we can't even demonstrate exists!

They give you the illness, and hold the ailment ransom. When in fact, there's nothing wrong with us in the first place.

And a Muslim will assert that... "People turn to Muhammed and the Q'uran for a reference to a better future."

I'm curious, do these statements sound good to you? Are they convincing? Why should they be convincing to anyone else, but with a Christian spin?

The missionaries send to Africa are responsible for so much hatred and suffering in the developing world. It's why parents genuinely believe that burning their own children alive, is a good thing. Citing "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". Their own children. Burned at the stake. Horrific. Or the way anti-gay laws are being pushed so hard. All as a result of Bible-thumping Christians spreading their ideology through some incredibly messed-up means. It's why secular charities are so brilliant. They don't make you sit through a service, or force you to listen to them preach gospels to you before they help you. It's goodness for goodness sake.

Likewise. Though I am incredibly offended by what you've said, I think you should have the right to say it. You're not trolling, and are clearly sincere. There's some attempt at a dialogue here, so, it should continue.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 3, 2015, Original Post Date: Sep 3, 2015 ---

Wow. I think it would help you a great deal to study logical fallacies. Ways to instantly debunk claims or arguments, with logic and reason. We're not even 1/4 of the way deep into this comment and it's absolutely littered with them.

You said that the evidence for a god... is in a baby's laugh? Er... forgive me here but, how is that evidence for a god?

'Pink invisible unicorns created the universe. Want to see proof? Look at a baby's smile! The existence of love! It's CLEAR!'

See how crazy that sounds? But for a god... it makes sense? [Special Pleading fallacy]

You then attempt to shift the burden of proof on your claim. This is base-logic stuff. If you make a claim, you have to prove it. It's not for everyone else to prove you wrong. We don't (or at least, we shouldn't) accept all claims until they're proven wrong. You'd end up believing MANY contradicting things for starters! We believe, when there is sufficient evidence and justification. The Christian god (or any god for that matter) has failed, and will continue to fail, unless something better is brought to the table. Rather than, "But... the smile of a baby!".

Lastly, there's the big fallacy on full display here. "You can't explain this, so I get to insert and assert whatever explanation I like. You can't prove me wrong, so I'm right (or likely right)!"

The 'Argument from Ignorance' fallacy, as close as anyone could get.

'I don't know' is an honest answer. It's a respectable answer, and it does not hinder progress in the search for truth. It means we can explore as many new ideas as possible and test everything to see what works and what doesn't. It's admitting our own ignorance as a species, so we can correct it through investigation and research.

"God did it" is an incredibly dishonest answer. Not only has there never been any recorded demonstration of the existence of a(ny) god, nor has there ever been a demonstration of the supernatural. Let alone... the proposal that, "If you don't have an answer, my answer is automatically given more credibility". It isn't. That's not how science or critical thinking works. As the saying goes....

If you can't show it, you don't know it!

Time to stop asserting, and start demonstrating.

 

You are an amazing debater, whereas I am an amateur hoping to take a shot at the big guns. I completely understand that my conclusions can be used in similar situations, making my arguments weak. You're 24, I'm 14. I'm a whole decade younger than you. I'm not that smart when it comes to debates. I try at first, then fail horribly. I get that. I am not going to (and maybe never will) say that my points are better than yours. You are right in a lot of cases, it's just that people like me may sound ignorant and disagree with it. But my only real goal entering these debates is to stop forcing people with religions into becoming atheists, because it's not only that they convert out of the religion (possibly) but that flame wars are also caused because the two sides simply cannot respect each other's opinions. (To not be offended, ignore this part.) In America, especially with the upcoming presidential campaign, all the candidates are arguing that their opponents are always wrong and that they themselves are right. That transfers over to society and people must be stepping over each other to make sure that their perspectives of things are the way things should be. I don't know, but I assume this comes out of insecurity, like in the saying "Insecurities speak louder than confidence." The more talk and the less walk, the more and more people go to the person that talks. When another tries to speak, they are shut down for not agreeing with the bigger party's opinion. It frustrates and saddens me that life must be this way "when there are starving kids in Africa that could do something if we helped them." If you aren't right, go somewhere else where you can be right. Don't cause negativity; negativity costs energy, money and time out of people, sometimes to death. Just....no.

 

I mimsquoted him god damn. Clam. Wait I didn't misquote how did you even quote me in that.

 

Oh damn. I have no idea what happened, I thought I'd quoted Aarett. Apologies, man.

Aarett, I've replied to you in detail up above mate. If you could take a quick look at let me know what you think, I'd appreciate it. Thanks man.

 

I'm sure he would, but the problem is he can't find any, which is why he said what he said.

Babies laugh, therefore God. I hate to sound like TheDebatheist, but that is a logical fallacy.

Lawrence Krauss does a nice job of it, I think you should watch some of his videos.

Infinity can never be reached.

Again, Lawrence Krauss. The scientific laws suck. They're going to be what's responsible for the universe's transformation into a cold, dead place.

That would be the aforementioned laws of physics.

Why? You haven't proven it yet.

I feel you. That's exactly how much sleep I got last night, and how much I got the two nights before it combined.

 

Things that you personally find to be nice are not proof for the existence of a God.

The thing with this argument, is that a God still had to come into existence from nothing, if a God existing is the case. Either way, something started from nothing, so you can't use the "how could something start from nothing" as evidence for the existence of a God.

Obviously, but the drive to survive (at least for long enough to reproduce), is a biological and evolutionary imperative, which we would need to survive regardless of whether or not a God exists.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2015, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2015 ---

Ehh, I would argue that it's typically the other way around. I've honestly never seen an atheist attempt to force a religious person into disbelieving; people argue their viewpoints, yes, but I've never seen an atheist try to force their opinion on a religious person. However, I have seen a lot of situations of religious people attempting to force their beliefs on atheists.

 

But if I believe something for reasons X, Y, and Z, and you prove to me that X, Y and Z are bad arguments, I'll change my mind. I'll stop believing, because I have no reason to believe any more. I don't want to believe things that are false. I don't want to be wrong for a second more than I have to, and I realise that I'm a fallible human that could be wrong about many things.

It's not "My ideas Vs your ideas, and let's see how sounds the smartest." It's... 'we all bring our ideas to the table, and we try to find out which beliefs are reasonable and grounded in logic. Which have justification, and which of these we should believe'. I'm not here to 'win debates', I'm here to improve myself and potentially others. As soon as you prove me wrong, I want to change. Do you feel the same way?

1) No-one's forcing anyone. At all. It's some Atheists challenging the beliefs of Theists (and visa versa). No different than a Republican challenging the beliefs of a Democrat. Religion should not be this sacred 'taboo' topic that is exempt from criticism. All I'm trying to to is tackle it, just as I would any other set of ideas.

2) I believe that respected is earned. I don't typically give it by default. That doesn't mean I disrespect people by default either, I try to stay neutral until I decide whether they deserve my respect. They might be an 'evil' person, or a 'good' person, so I try to wait before giving respect.

2b) More importantly (and worryingly, in my opinion) you seem to have a problem with people 'not respecting the opinions of others'. There are some opinions in this forum that I do not respect, and I don't think anyone else should.

Some people claiming they know more about the science of reality than the consensus of the world's leading scientists.

The fact that some people have expressed their desire to see others writhing in eternal agony. Relishing in the infinite misery of others.

Openly supporting a criminal organisation that shuffles child-molesters under the guise of 'religious respect'.

I believe these views are worthy of disrespect, and in fact, they sicken me. Just as I would be sickened by the opinion that white/black people are inferior to black/white people. I don't respect this opinion, and I don't want to be told that I have to, either. Some views are worthy of a lack of respect.

Sadly, change usually comes as a form of conflict. (Not necessarily violent, sometimes just a verbal one). But meaningful change is never usually easy. Negativity/Disagreements is something we just have to accept if we have any desire to improve ourselves, and if we are to progress as a society and continue to strive towards a more fair and just world for everyone.

 

I saw this debate before and it really all comes down to what religion you are. You have every right to not believe in god or do believe.
However I am a christian so I do believe in god, and I don't hate on people who don't,everyone is human just like you and me, so in my opinion you shouldn't accuse someone for not believing or believing.

 

Of course. I don't think anyone here is proposing thought-crime.

I 'hate on' any harmful actions and harmful ideas. Which is why I hate most religions. Christianity in particular is incredibly harmful, and is (and has been) responsible for many atrocities the world over.

Just to name a few? Promoting anti-scientific claims, homophobia, xenophobia, intolerance toward non-believers, teaching people not to question (faith, arguably the worst of the lot), the burning of 'witches' in Africa (parents burning their children at the stake, adhering to the Bible), the promotion and regulation of slavery, the idea that some people deserve infinite punishment for a finite crime, sex-negative views....

...I could go on, really. Beliefs influence actions, and actions have real-world consequences. That's why I dislike some religions.

 

I don't see any accusations being thrown around here, just people challenging ideas placed before them. For example, have you ever thought to yourself why you think the way you do? I try to do so daily, and try to catch myself out on ideas to determine where the motivation for thinking that way has come from.

 

The Americas sideways on a map create a duck. Atheists can't explain this.

 

Its funny how this story was ripped off from the Epic of Gilgamesh, A story created 2000 years before Noah's ark was written.

 

Your signature is too perfect with this comment

 

its funny how you only found 1 possible flaw in my argument