Gay Rights

So... every time someone does not change their mind, they're beyond reason? Because if that's all it takes for someone to be beyond reason, I'd submit that most of humanity would be, in your eyes.

I will continue to suggest that we should try to reason with people, even when it seems unlikely As I will tell others to continue to engage. But that's based on the assumption that most people can be reasoned with. Even those that stay fixed in their beliefs, at first.

As said many times, I havn't seen this person act, so it's difficult for me to come down hard, either way. I think we should just move on, for now, onto something more substantive.

 

Strawmanning.... If you have already presented your best arguments, and your best evidence, and the opponent ignores it, then you can't really do anything other than give them time to think on their own.

But I put so much work into this!!! You're probably right though...

 

The question mark was there for a reason, you know. I was asking, not asserting.

So what else did he do to lead you to the conclusion that he was beyond reason? Bar 'not changing his mind'.

Again, if he was outright ignoring points, then he wasn't even involved in a discussion. More so a problem with his communication skills, than reasoning skills.

But yeah, I think we could both sink our teeth into some cooler, more productive stuff. And I'd like to.

 

Well, I like how you ignored everything else I said and only focused on the religious aspect. It really goes to show why we can never have decent debates about the issue of homosexuality. Because people ignore proven facts and make everything about religion.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015 ---

I could spend an hour going on and on about how the story of Adam and Eve is flawed, but I'd much rather have you debate the topic without bringing up creationism. Everything you're posting on this thread has to do with religion and is not backed up by any factual information.

If God's message was so vitally important, then why was it not delivered in a way for everyone to understand? Why does religion depend on your place of birth? Why do people in the Middle East receive a different message than those born in western Europe? Not everyone believes the same thing. You can be wrong, but by nature you don't consider that a possibility so you continue to debate such a topic without regard to anything else.

 

You should take an English class, and focus on phrasing, because your 'question' was an attack. In addition, you accuse me of strawmanning when I asked questions.

What else is there? By not changing his mind, he's shown he is not going to reason with us. Whether that means he is beyond all reason (I never said that btw, you're strawmanning again) is irrelevant. If you don't refute this, other than giving your belief that most people can be reasoned with (which is not a refutation), then I won't leave this point.

This is the least logical sentence I've seen in a while.

Either way, we can't debate with him. Do you see how this is helping me more than you?

Ok.

 

Well, you need to fully explain your position then. When you say, "I did this, because he committed X", and then I ask... "well, do you treat everyone that one, that commits X?", it isn't an unreasonable question. You failed you explain that he was ignoring posts. The onus is on you here, I can't read minds.

Also, I'm not here to tone-police, your honour.

I'm tried of being accused of straw-manning as soon as I do the same to you. That's how these seem to go. I claim X, and I try to prove X. You address that in a line or two, and the claim I'm doing exactly the same with little to no proof. Too tired for this behaviour.

Can you explain why? Pointing out a flaw of mine is useless unless I know why.

No, because it makes it a separate issue. It's not that he's beyond reason, it's that he has communication issues, and our approach to him should change to accommodate that.

I'll let you wrap up (unless something extraordinary is said), but I'm done with this conversation here. Let's move on.

 

Not much to respond to here, except that it was phrasing, not tone.

I'm tired of being strawmanned for the same reasons.

One can be involved in a discussion, and ignore the oppositions arguments, or, more accurately, refute them using illogical premises with no evidence, and then refuse to listen to why they were illogical. They just aren't going to learn anything from the discussion.

If we can't communicate to him in a way that he can understand, then we can't reason with him. It's not because of a lack of reason on his part (although, IMO, he does lack a certain level of reason), it's just that we can't convey our ideas to him. Honestly, I think we can agree that Dat_coffee wouldn't be able to explain it in a way Miro would understand. He can be pretty abrupt.

 

Everything you need to know is in the bible. God said you should live by the bible, And I do my best to live by the bible.

 

The Bible says to live by the Bible, therefore the Bible is Truth. What if I told you I don't believe in the Bible. I don't think it's correct. All your arguments are now irrelevant to me.

 

LIKE I SAID IN MY POSTS BEFORE, GOD GAVE US A CHOICE TO DO WHATEVER WE WANT TO DO, TO FOLLOW HIM OR GO ALONG WITH THIS WORLD. AND LETS SAY IT WAS YOUR CHOICE TO FOLLOW THE WORLD THEN THATS YOUR CHOICE. AND MY CHOICE IS TO FOLLOW GOD. See what I mean now?

 

The caps was unnecessary. And no. I don't believe in your God, and I don't believe that he gave us a choice, so telling me this doesn't constitute an argument.

 

Do you follow every word in the Bible then?

 

He's probably like the other Christians who say they are hardcore Bible believers but in reality have never actually read the book, or he might be one of those people who only follow certain parts of the bible and ignore the other stuff in there.

 

I haven't read the hole bible because its super long. But God said that you should live by the bible and I'm doing my best.

 

So what do you think of Biblical slavery? Have you read about that?

 

But how do you really know that. You don't even know me, Thats judging, and you've never even met me.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015, Original Post Date: Aug 24, 2015 ---

Like I said I haven't read the hole bible.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2015 ---

See thats your choice not to believe in God.

 

Well, what do you think of slavery? Is that moral? Because the god of the Bible doesn't seem to have a problem with it. In fact, he set out regulations and loopholes for you to enslave your fellow Jews.

Do you think that, if you're going to love part of your life by what the Bible says, you should check it, to see what's in there first?

 

Slavery really hurts God, Because everybody is equal the same. Again we all have a choice, we can do what ever we want to in this world. God totally cares, slavery hurts God very deeply. God gave us a choice to do what we want in this world and its the choices that we make that determine if we go to heaven or hell.

 

But he condones slavery in the Bible though. He explicitly sets out rules for how to watch over your slaves, how to pass them on as property to your children, from where you should enslave people, how much they are worth, and tricks to get some slaves to be your slaves forever.

Please, read the Bible.

Can I just ask, what's 'Hell', in your eyes? What is this place?

 

Did God say that? Or your parents?