How does this even make remote sense, staff?

Torchic

Are you saying that parents who allow their children on the internet are bad parents? I allow my kids on the internet. Their computer is right in plain view of mine. Do you even have kids?
~ @Jess_4Ds

If I had kids I'd be in jail...

I'm saying that allowing communication with anyone else is bad. On a server where there are often people swearing in chat, it's a bad influence and it's better to let children play their little coolmathgames or whatever instead of talking to anyone they don't know. No site can be truly family-friendly, as there's always some dolt who needs to post a swear or whatever.

NuckleMuckle

Rusian_Pedobear posted porn a while ago.
~ @Torchic

Read fail, again, so I'll say again: please post a link to the RaP thread which contains a clickable link to porn. Any failure to do so on your part is a concession that you're just whining and making stuff up.

it doesn't matter that the server can't be held responsible. good parents do not allow their children to interact with ANYONE online unsupervised. Not to mention, perhaps not porn itself, but people swearing in chat and making sexual references, but it has happened. Not my fault that you haven't been on long enough to know about it.
The server can't stop people from saying bad things, and my point stands that stupid soccer moms who have no idea how to keep their kids safe from the internet (hint: don't let them talk to strangers) shouldn't whine to us for their mistake.

The server can stop people from posting inappropriately by having a complaint system, having people respond quickly to those complaints, and issuing bans as necessary. And hey, there it is, we have a staff team and means to complain in-game, in forums, and on TS, and the staff usually respond pretty quickly, whaddya know. And as a result, we don't have a server constantly bombarded by salty text and lewd links, like you find on so many other public servers. I feel like I'm pointing out the blindingly obvious here, and I'm trying to understand how all this could have escaped your attention. Have you been on Meepcraft long? Have you visited any other Minecraft servers?

Please don't offer any advice or criticism to any person on the subject of good parenting, as you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Muunkee

Read fail, again, so I'll say again: please post a link to the RaP thread which contains a clickable link to porn. Any failure to do so on your part is a concession that you're just whining and making stuff up.
~ @NuckleMuckle

You realise he does this and he gets banned rite

NuckleMuckle

Posting a link to another Meepcraft forums thread? If it's already here, I don't see what damage is being caused. Unless staff have been really, really irresponsible, he's not going to find it anyway, which is the point of the exercise.

But supposing I'm wrong, and with rules being subject to interpretation, your opinion might be shared by someone in staff. So as an alternative, he can send it direct to me via PM. I solemnly promise not to make a complaint about receiving a link to a meepcraft.com link, and certify that I am old enough to view inappropriate materials without parental supervision.

Muunkee

Posting a link to another Meepcraft forums thread? If it's already here, I don't see what damage is being caused. Unless staff have been really, really irresponsible, he's not going to find it anyway, which is the point of the exercise.
But supposing I'm wrong, and with rules being subject to interpretation, your opinion might be shared by someone in staff. So as an alternative, he can send it direct to me via PM. I solemnly promise not to make a complaint about receiving a link to a meepcraft.com link, and certify that I am old enough to view inappropriate materials without parental supervision.
~ @NuckleMuckle

Probably won't find a link in RaP, but if I take awhile I'll be able to find one in ban appeals.

NuckleMuckle

I extend the same invitation to you, then, because if you find any, we can work with the staff to have the links removed.

Muunkee

Probably won't find a link in RaP, but if I take awhile I'll be able to find one in ban appeals.
~ @Muunkee

Posting a link to another Meepcraft forums thread? If it's already here, I don't see what damage is being caused. Unless staff have been really, really irresponsible, he's not going to find it anyway, which is the point of the exercise.
But supposing I'm wrong, and with rules being subject to interpretation, your opinion might be shared by someone in staff. So as an alternative, he can send it direct to me via PM. I solemnly promise not to make a complaint about receiving a link to a meepcraft.com link, and certify that I am old enough to view inappropriate materials without parental supervision.
~ @NuckleMuckle

It actually too a lot less searching than I thought it would.
http://meepcraft.com/threads/ban.37914/#post-403006
This player was banned for posting the following link in shout:
http://imgur.com/a/D9KhL
If you make all of the characters at the end of the URL lowercase, you would see a porn picture. You can't go to it anymore, I assume it has since been deleted.
You can kinda see the top of it in Sarahlaserena's post on that thread. (it's sfw in that image she posted, it was covered, you can't see 'anything' there. I can assure you, I looked at it the lowercase link myself, it was indeed nasty.)

That's because imgur is case sensitive. Without those cases it was a porn link and that's what happened and saw when you clicked on that link in shout.

If there was no caps filter the issue could have well been avoided.

NuckleMuckle

It actually too a lot less searching than I thought it would.
http://meepcraft.com/threads/ban.37914/#post-403006
This player was banned for posting the following link in shout:
http://imgur.com/a/D9KhL
If you make all of the characters at the end of the URL lowercase, you would see a porn picture. You can't go to it anymore, I assume it has since been deleted.
You can kinda see the top of it in Sarahlaserena's post on that thread. (it's sfw in that image she posted, it was covered, you can't see 'anything' there. I can assure you, I looked at it the lowercase link myself, it was indeed nasty.)
That's because imgur is case sensitive. Without those cases it was a porn link and that's what happened and saw when you clicked on that link in shout.
If there was no caps filter the issue could have well been avoided.
~ @Muunkee

Thanks for confirming the legend of the inappropriate imgur post, which supports the argument for why the chat filter needs to change.

However, the thread you presented does not contain any inappropriate content in and of itself, as Torchic alleged. It contains no clickable links to such content, and the image has been altered sufficiently. It's up to the end user to manually type the URL in order to view the original image... assuming it still exists.

Muunkee

Thanks for confirming the legend of the inappropriate imgur post, which supports the argument for why the chat filter needs to change.
However, the thread you presented does not contain any inappropriate content in and of itself, as Torchic alleged. It contains no clickable links to such content, and the image has been altered sufficiently. It's up to the end user to manually type the URL in order to view the original image... assuming it still exists.
~ @NuckleMuckle

Muunkee

Thanks for confirming the legend of the inappropriate imgur post, which supports the argument for why the chat filter needs to change.
However, the thread you presented does not contain any inappropriate content in and of itself, as Torchic alleged. It contains no clickable links to such content, and the image has been altered sufficiently. It's up to the end user to manually type the URL in order to view the original image... assuming it still exists.
~ @NuckleMuckle

Actually, most people can click a link in minecraft chat and it will pop up in their browser. it works for me. I think it's a setting.

I have not once seen a clickable link to porn in report a player. And I usually watch report a player and I used to moderate it.

Lord_Walrus

NuckleMuckle

Actually, most people can click a link in minecraft chat and it will pop up in their browser. it works for me. I think it's a setting.
~ @Muunkee

Indeed, and the /vote module depends on this functionality, so the server clearly intends for us to use it. The server does allow for people to exchange hyperlinks, and the only problem is that, in order to prevent certain types of chat spam, they've introduced some not-terribly-well-considered rules that have unintended effects on certain URLs.

Once upon a time I entered a suggestion that they modify the filter to exclude any words from rule-checking that start with "http," but it got shot down.

have not once seen a clickable link to porn in report a player. And I usually watch report a player and I used to moderate it.

Exactly.

TNT404

This isn't the first time I've heard the legend of the unintended porn link. We know it's a fact that the chat filter will alter hyperlinks, and we know that the results will be entirely unpredictable. Based on how often people exchange hyperlinks, it is expected that such an issue would have happened before, and it can be expected to happen again.
For a server that bills itself as family-friendly, and mostly behaves that way, this should be considered an intolerable result.
As a parent yourself, if you paid for your children to play a game, and you saw it serving porn links to them, your first reaction would be to delete the game and demand a full refund. A server cannot be held fully responsible for the behavior of its users, but this isn't the case of user behavior - it's the code that's responsible.
~ @NuckleMuckle

imo the family friendly is arbitrary and used at will. I also feel that it drives away (some) players because we don´t want to go on to the internet to be babied and then (for me) watching that be broken in same cases with no consequence but in others it´s way too extreme. I understand some things need to be moderated, but it just goes way too far imo.

Torchic

Read fail, again, so I'll say again: please post a link to the RaP thread which contains a clickable link to porn. Any failure to do so on your part is a concession that you're just whining and making stuff up.
The server can stop people from posting inappropriately by having a complaint system, having people respond quickly to those complaints, and issuing bans as necessary. And hey, there it is, we have a staff team and means to complain in-game, in forums, and on TS, and the staff usually respond pretty quickly, whaddya know. And as a result, we don't have a server constantly bombarded by salty text and lewd links, like you find on so many other public servers. I feel like I'm pointing out the blindingly obvious here, and I'm trying to understand how all this could have escaped your attention. Have you been on Meepcraft long? Have you visited any other Minecraft servers?
Please don't offer any advice or criticism to any person on the subject of good parenting, as you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
~ @NuckleMuckle

Here we go again with the excessive personal attacks. I point out that you aren't smart enough to realize what I'm talking about and you fill your entire argument with it, thus, your opinion is invalid.

The server GETS swear words and inappropriate things said on it all the time; banning the person doesn't remove that. I've been on Meep longer than you, and I've seen my fair share of idiots posting bad things. People will do it even if you have rules against it, and it does happen. The point's simply impeccable, unlike your debating skills.

nhjed

We can allow caps in msg and in order for us to moderate it appropriately we can also turn on social spy.
~ @Jess_4Ds

There is no need to do any of that. If the player feels as if the message was inappropriate they could report the player on the forums

iMelXP

Honestly, I'm pretty sure caps in messaging is a basic human right.
~ @7acespade

ok first of all lmfao do u even hear urself here

so far the major two arguments on both sides are weak af tbh

-"It requires more moderation"
Players harassing other players via msg are going to use caps whether or not it's enabled, saying expletives Lik E Th Is rather than LIKE THIS doesn't really make much of a difference, the player would report them for harassment and it would be handled. Enabling caps in message wouldn't increase the amount of harassment cases, harassment would just happen slightly differently. We wouldn't have to use social spy, because it would be incredibly spammy on staff's screen as we're a high volume server.

+"Then we can use links"
Why does it matter that www. shortens to ww. ? it doesn't actually make any difference? 'www.youtube.com' and 'youtube.com' go to the same place, www is unnecessary.
Also, if you want to send an image or link to someone that's case sensitive, tinyurl.com exists. There the links created aren't caps sensitive, and it only adds about 5 seconds to the time it takes to share the link.

The best argument for it is "Why is this something we are denied?"
I don't agree with the decision to disallow it because you haven't been able to supply us with a suitable reason for doing so. I understand when going over suggestions the first thing that's brought up is "How much work would this be to implement", but here, there wouldn't really be much work at all. Dblo takes up mini projects sporadically, why can't this be one of them?

I feel this is something y'all should revisit and either come up with a viable denial or add back to trello.
im not hating on u jess ilu and i know these are usually group decisions

Draqq

We can allow caps in msg and in order for us to moderate it appropriately we can also turn on social spy.
~ @Jess_4Ds

Why do you have to monitor personal messages?

NuckleMuckle

Here we go again with the excessive personal attacks. I point out that you aren't smart enough to realize what I'm talking about and you fill your entire argument with it, thus, your opinion is invalid.
The server GETS swear words and inappropriate things said on it all the time; banning the person doesn't remove that. I've been on Meep longer than you, and I've seen my fair share of idiots posting bad things. People will do it even if you have rules against it, and it does happen. The point's simply impeccable, unlike your debating skills.
~ @Torchic

You've called me stupid three times now, so who is making with the "excessive personal attacks" again? Forum ban, please.

I realize that there are occasional swear words on Meepcraft, and yes, I'm smart enough to realize that the basis of your argument is that seem to think that those occasions are reason enough for "good parents" to keep their kids away from Meepcraft, which, given that at least half the server population and a number of its staff members are minors, means we should basically shut down the server, all so the kids don't encounter words that they're likely hearing on a daily basis.

So yeah, I'm smart enough to understand your completely stupid argument. Welcome to the real world, where things are sometimes messy but at least we can try to clean up after ourselves.

If you haven't noticed that by banning for misbehavior that the server gets less of that behavior, there is no hope for you.

One sign that a person is trying to sound smarter than they are is when they misuse big words. "Impeccable."

Why do you have to monitor personal messages?
~ @Draqq

If monitoring is available, staff can confirm/deny any complaints. Screen shots are a less than perfect tool for proof. They don't show context, they don't show patterns of behavior, they can be blocked if the user is spammed by messages, etc.

Torchic

You've called me stupid three times now, so who is making with the "excessive personal attacks" again? Forum ban, please.
I realize that there are occasional swear words on Meepcraft, and yes, I'm smart enough to realize that the basis of your argument is that seem to think that those occasions are reason enough for "good parents" to keep their kids away from Meepcraft, which, given that at least half the server population and a number of its staff members are minors, means we should basically shut down the server, all so the kids don't encounter words that they're likely hearing on a daily basis.
So yeah, I'm smart enough to understand your completely stupid argument. Welcome to the real world, where things are sometimes messy but at least we can try to clean up after ourselves.
If you haven't noticed that by banning for misbehavior that the server gets less of that behavior, there is no hope for you.
One sign that a person is trying to sound smarter than they are is when they misuse big words. "Impeccable."
If monitoring is available, staff can confirm/deny any complaints. Screen shots are a less than perfect tool for proof. They don't show context, they don't show patterns of behavior, they can be blocked if the user is spammed by messages, etc.
~ @NuckleMuckle

Forum ban for calling someone stupid. Liberal, holy crud.

The word "impeccable" means faultless; that is what I think of my point. Trust me, you're not smarter than I am, or some genius, to be saying that sort of stuff.

It's honestly very sad that you think my argument is stupid. The point is that, and I'll put it into layman's terms for you,

People swear on this server and literally everywhere. Letting a child communicate with hundreds (tens nowadays) of others, almost all of which are unpredictable, is going to expose them to bad stuff. MeepCraft cannot censor this, and I'm putting the argument out to the internet as a whole.

"Minors"? I'm a minor, but I'm mature enough to not care.

NuckleMuckle

+"Then we can use links"
Why does it matter that www. shortens to ww. ? it doesn't actually make any difference? 'www.youtube.com' and 'youtube.com' go to the same place, www is unnecessary.
Also, if you want to send an image or link to someone that's case sensitive, tinyurl.com exists. There the links created aren't caps sensitive, and it only adds about 5 seconds to the time it takes to share the link.
~ @iMelXP

It matters because if you copy and paste an Imgur link, because that server does not add "www" to the URL, it's a functional hyperlink that works when you click on it. Yahoo (and many, many others, this was an early Internet standard) do put "www" in their domain name, and now the URL is non-functional as a hyperlink due to the chat filter. You have to edit the URL manually in your browser window.

Personally, I instantly distrust any tinyurl links, because they obscure the address, and I have no way to know whether to trust the content until I click the link... whereas I already know how much to trust a Yahoo link (news.yahoo.com = trust, answers.yahoo.com = lol).

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