Automatic Farms

Skwisher

I believe the current rule which states that selling items from automatic farms is illegal is in need of removing. If I spend hours of my time first teaching myself the basics of redstone and then more hours designing a fully functioning farm which is able to automatically harvest items and then even more hours collecting the resources and building this farm on MeepCraft I don't see why I shouldn't be able to make a profit off it. There is an incredible amount of effort which goes into the whole process of making automatic farms especially due to the sheer complexity of most of the designs, so if a player wants to make a profit off automatic farms, I don't see why they shouldn't be rewarded for putting in all that effort. By having the current ruling on automatic farms, redstone-ing (which is an integral part of minecraft) is pretty much removed from the game making it less fun for those who have put in the time to learn it. Redstone-ing adds a whole new economy path to meepcraft and seeing as it is an economy server, I don't see why it should be made illegal.

KariStar86

I don't believe there is a rule against automatic farms, nor against profiting from them... only against exploiting glitches (see: autofishing).

Skwisher

I don't believe there is a rule against automatic farms, nor against profiting from them... only against exploiting glitches (see: autofishing).
~ @KariStar86

It is currently illegal to sell items gained from automatic farms.

KariStar86

It is currently illegal to sell items gained from automatic farms.
~ @Skwisher

I know I'm not staff anymore, but again, I don't think this is true. There is no rule against it, and no rule that it falls under.Now that I think about it, I believe we did confirm at a recent meeting that it's not illegal.

Skwisher

If it is now legal, these signs should be removed to avoid confusion.

KariStar86

If it is now legal, these signs should be removed to avoid confusion.

~ @Skwisher

Hmm. :confused: I think the message of the sign may have gotten lost in translation. It's located in the admin shop, right? I think that means selling admin shop items... in which case "generated" would mean spawned-in items. Selling items from generators has been legal for some time now, if I remember correctly. There was some confusion about it among staff members until recently, though, and I think at one point before I got here it had been ruled illegal. I know that there has never been a rule against it since I joined in February of this year... I know because I checked the rules frequently because I was paranoid about getting banned, lol. Cobblestone generators are a necessary part of Skyblock, and people sell cobble there - as well as items from automated farms in Towny - all the time. I even remember several people selling auto sugarcane farms in shout with no repercussions.

Skwisher

Hmm. :confused: I think the message of the sign may have gotten lost in translation. It's located in the admin shop, right? I think that means selling admin shop items... in which case "generated" would mean spawned-in items. Selling items from generators has been legal for some time now, if I remember correctly. There was some confusion about it among staff members until recently, though, and I think at one point before I got here it had been ruled illegal. I know that there has never been a rule against it since I joined in February of this year... I know because I checked the rules frequently because I was paranoid about getting banned, lol. Cobblestone generators are a necessary part of Skyblock, and people sell cobble there - as well as items from automated farms in Towny - all the time. I even remember several people selling auto sugarcane farms in shout with no repercussions.
~ @KariStar86

Well I guess that is my problem solved then, however I might just ask that the staff are able to specify this somewhere so that this confusion doesn't occur again.

xXJoshXx

Well I guess that is my problem solved then, however I might just ask that the staff are able to specify this somewhere so that this confusion doesn't occur again.
~ @Skwisher

Yeah
I agree with Kari
The sign might mean 'generated' as in 'duped'
You can make a profit from auto farms, im almost 100% there is no rule against it

le gooboy

I think the rule is like underraged drinking in Italy; they say its illegal, but they don't really enforce it.

semiblind

I was online when this went up, and if i recall correctly it was onis that said something to the effect that generated meant items from farms. So no cobble from a cobble farm, no coal from a wither farm, etc.

UglyUnicorn

I think that the signs means that if you buy from the admin shop, you cannot sell that item to other players.

KariStar86

I was online when this went up, and if i recall correctly it was onis that said something to the effect that generated meant items from farms. So no cobble from a cobble farm, no coal from a wither farm, etc.
~ @semiblind

When was that? An admin and several other staff confirmed the opposite recently, but Onis may have his own ideas...

Muunkee

What kari would say is correct - if you're using some weird mechanism in game to spawn in items (like the redstone and obby thing) That'd be illegal. But if I have an auto sugarcane farm using redstone, that's perfectly legal.

semiblind

When was that? An admin and several other staff confirmed the opposite recently, but Onis may have his own ideas...
~ @KariStar86

I dont remember the date, but it was when the admin shop started buying items. People were online asking and that was the response i saw. Because of all the confusion, it would be nice to get a "final word" on what, exactly, is allowed and not.

What kari would say is correct - if you're using some weird mechanism in game to spawn in items (like the redstone and obby thing) That'd be illegal. But if I have an auto sugarcane farm using redstone, that's perfectly legal.

IMO the redstone/obby should be legal as well since you have to pretty much do it all manually anyway... but thats just my opinion.

Skwisher

IMO the redstone/obby should be legal as well since you have to pretty much do it all manually anyway... but thats just my opinion.
~ @semiblind

Wont matter soon, Mojang said they would remove it in the next patch.

kwagscraft

If it is now legal, these signs should be removed to avoid confusion.

~ @Skwisher

Generated items refer to items generated by the admiin shops.

KariStar86

I dont remember the date, but it was when the admin shop started buying items. People were online asking and that was the response i saw. Because of all the confusion, it would be nice to get a "final word" on what, exactly, is allowed and not.
~ @semiblind

Ooh! That makes more sense, actually, if the sign is talking about selling "generated" items to the admin shop specifically. I agree there should be a clarification (on what is considered "generated," if/when such generators are allowed and if/when we can sell from them).

Deinen

I think this entire thing is riddled with some element of confusion. I also think this merits longer review, and a discussion about the implications of ruling either way on this. I personally, not in any capacity as staff, think that there is no real harm selling generated items (Such as stone, etc) to the admin shops simply for the fact that doing that is slower than actually going into the wild and mining it from the get go. I think this logic applies to nearly all generators, etc.

I think this warrants further discussion, certainly.

Jwarian

I believe the current rule which states that selling items from automatic farms is illegal is in need of removing. If I spend hours of my time first teaching myself the basics of redstone and then more hours designing a fully functioning farm which is able to automatically harvest items and then even more hours collecting the resources and building this farm on MeepCraft I don't see why I shouldn't be able to make a profit off it. There is an incredible amount of effort which goes into the whole process of making automatic farms especially due to the sheer complexity of most of the designs, so if a player wants to make a profit off automatic farms, I don't see why they shouldn't be rewarded for putting in all that effort. By having the current ruling on automatic farms, redstone-ing (which is an integral part of minecraft) is pretty much removed from the game making it less fun for those who have put in the time to learn it. Redstone-ing adds a whole new economy path to meepcraft and seeing as it is an economy server, I don't see why it should be made illegal.
~ @Skwisher

Yeap, this is from my convo with da admins last week about it:

i would like to lobby for a request that we better define "generated" items.
Sjoe has a slime farm taking advantage of in game mechanics requiring only afk.
I have a sugar farm that requires only afk.
There are several wither driven farms that produce lots of items using only afk after setup.
Iron trenches/farms produce huge outputs of iron(I assume that's why iron was at /sell .1)
Automated villager farming devices also generate items.
I have a gaurdian mob farm that generates 1.8 sea items.
All these and including hornemans old cacti farm can be considered "generators".
I have one statement from slicknsly saying of course a sugar farm isn't generated items, while also being told by sjoe that it is. This is unsafe to moderate by.
It is my belief that if someone wants to take their time, money, land and other materials and invest in a large scale operation that they should be allowed to, if not rewarded. This is minecraft and a lot of our more avid players certainly enjoy/play for these specific opportunities.
I think we should clarify these rules sooner than later.
My suggestion is that we keep the line where we always fell back to: glitch mechanics/macro use = ban.
Afk at whatever piston/redstone/villager you want should be clarified as legal. We should just be mindful of /sell pricing.
There are several sand/stone/obby/fishing generators that rely on in game glitch mechanics to yield results, I do believe these cross a line. I also agree that despite being hard to moderate, afk involving holding down keys should also be illegal. Also thinking afk with a shovel at a snowman with right click held down.
Please, even just a second sign or an amendment to the rules section would help us a lot.
For perspective, I have a sugar cane farm capable of creating several thousand sugarcane per minecraft day, however given a sell price of .1 it would still merit some avenue of profit of I wanted to sell that many times through shop, not that that's what I'm focused on but I do think considering I spent 3weeks and over 3 million to just build it earns me the right to sell it even at .01. Not that it's relevant I built it 10 months ago, just using it for perspective.
There are countless devices and almost no way to track them. If we clarify the line perhaps we can encourage large scale operations(jobs) while also giving moderators a clear line to moderate on involving the glitch/macro things, we could save everyone a lot of time/effort.
If you would like I can compile a list of all farmable devices/mechanics so we could further define each.
Please follow up with me on this. Thanks in advance.
~ @Jwarian

This was the reply:

"I have one statement from slicknsly saying of course a sugar farm isn't generated items"
I said that of course you could sell them. What item farmed isn't generated?
I don't understand why we would moderate this either. Should we not allow players to farm an unlimited amount of these items?
"My suggestion is that we keep the line where we always fell back to: glitch mechanics/macro use = ban.
Afk at whatever piston/redstone/villager you want should be clarified as legal."
This never changed.
~ @SJP

/thread

Seriously tho, just nix the sign.

Skwisher

Seriously tho, just nix the sign.
~ @Jwarian

How did you manage that? N is so far away from f on the keyboard.